My name is Sugar and I am a member of the Web of Narcissism Forums (WoN forums; www.webofnarcissism.com). This message board is a lovely and nurturing community of individuals who have/are suffering from the effects of a narcissist in their lives. Personally, I am the daughter of a narcissistic mother and still live with her, which is very difficult to deal with, but I am hanging in there.
Before I found WoN, I was a member of the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers forum run by a Danu Morrigan. My username there was veryluckysallycherry. This forum is the main reason for my creation of this blog in the first place. I wish to warn all of you daughters of narcissistic mothers who are seeking a safe haven for healing to AVOID Danu's forum at all costs. I, like many others who have come forward, have been abused and unjustly banned there without any explanation whatsoever. I can say with the utmost confidence that I did NOT even break any rules there. Out of the blue back in August, I received a ban and was never given the decency of a proper reason why I was being punished. Why? Because there was NO REASON.
Let me take you further into the insanity of this dictatorship-like message board by providing you with the exact details and proof I have saved so that I could create this blog. I was banned on August 29, 2010. I was creating a topic on the board when I noticed the site was running slow. I logged out and then back in to be greeted by this message:
"You have been permanently banned from this board.
Reason given for ban: Poster disregarded Site Management's instructions of 5-13-10.
A ban has been issued on your username."I was completely bewildered and upset. I was sure it was a mistake, as just that day a member made a topic apologizing for accidentally breaking a rule on the forum. In this topic, Danu and Light (a mod at DoNM) provide "reassurance" and both talked of how they both "accidentally banned" themselves and members on the forum. Seems pretty odd that people running a forum can "accidentally" ban, no? I used to be an administrator myself on a message board for several years and I have NEVER accidentally banned myself or anyone else. I had to deliberately choose to ban a member and the software on the message board I worked at was the same as DoNM, phpBB. Shoddy professionalism if I have ever seen it. Sounds to me like Danu and Light's posts are a convenient way to publicly make them seem innocent so that they can just go around banning people for no apparent reason. See the proof for yourself:
Light: I accidentally banned a member, too, but she was brave and polite, and was like, "Um, gee, is there a problem with something? I got banned..." And I was like, "Yeah, you bet there's a problem... I'm a freaking idiot!"And Danu's:
You know who you are, brave and kind woman I banned that day -- how grateful I've been for your mercy...
Just remember, it's nothing I haven't done to myself!
Danu: And yes, ladies, Light did ban herselfAfter seeing these posts the very DAY I was banned for no reason (which should have been a warning sign to me, as it's just too coincidental), I created a second account just so I could contact the first staff member I saw online to find out what exactly was going on. Seeing that Light was online, I contacted her explaining the strange no-reason ban and asking what was happening. A few minutes after sending the PM, I noticed it was opened and I received no reply from Light. Yet another odd sign. I checked again hours later - still no reply. Not knowing what was going on, I decided to contact Danu asking what was going on. To no surprise, I did not receive a reply from her either.. I cannot BEGIN to tell you the mileage I got out of that **chortle**. Until the day I banned myself too!
And even The Nerd, who has Admin powers and has total access to the forum, couldn't get access because of course he's on the same IP address as me and that was banned! LOL.
In the meantime, on the second account I created, I was reading through EVERY one of my posts from May 13th made with the veryluckysallycherry account to see if there was anything that could have been taken up as a violation of rules and there was not a single thing that was offensive in my posts. Moreover, I knew that I had never received any instructions from site management on May 13th.
But things get even MORE insane on the day of August 29th, believe it or not. As I was on the forum reading through my posts, I noticed a new topic by Light in the General Discussion forum titled "missred" (the name of a recently registered user at the time - as a side note, if you are reading this missred, I hope you do not mind me using you as an example to expose Danu and Light's corruption. I will not expose any of your personal information). This post clearly belonged in a private staff forum, but somehow ended up in the public general discussion. I find it quite odd though, that THREE staff members participated in the topic and not one seemed to notice that it was in the wrong forum so that their gossiping was viewable to all. Take a look at what Light says about this member:
Light: member's name is missred
This post scared the crap out of me. Would you guys have a look? I put it in the Q for a bit. I don't know what to think. All I know is, to be honest, I don't want her here after reading that. Maybe that's not really fair, but maybe it's something I should listen to carefully. Like I said, I'm not too sure just yet. I think I need time to think about it. Let's chat about this?
It would have been one thing if she'd said she got into trouble as a kid or something, but this felt like a lot more than that, and I'm feeling pretty uncomfortable with her...
I don't know about missred. There's something that isn't sitting right with me about that post. I just get an intuitive fearful feeling.Wow. Just..wow. I remember reading missred's posts and nothing gave me an "intuitive fearful feeling". She just wrote about her experiences with having a NM in the "My Story" section of the forum, which is meant just for that - SHARING YOUR STORY. They removed her story and even picked on this member in this topic for posting asking where her story went and stating that she hoped she had not broken any rules. Apparently, this had made Light suspicious as she also commented that it was "strange" for her to worry about being banned for breaking rules (I apologize, I do not have the direct quote for that). So..now it's strange for a member to question where their topic went when administration removed it and hope that this did not mean she had broken rules? Sounds like a certain staff member is a bit paranoid. Or at least looking for a reason to drop the ban ax on yet another member.
I guess this must be how they tear up all of their members behind the scenes? They must have had a field day with me, since I talked of how my NM is physically abusive at times. It's pretty odd that these women are running a message board and are willing to so easily ban people on "intuition" instead of PROOF of actual wrongdoing. What's even more disgusting is they are persecuting people for talking about their experiences when their half-assed-run forum is supposed to be for HEALING. What's more, I'd like to know how Light can get "intuition" from text on a screen without seeing or hearing a person speaking.
I felt terrible when I saw missred reply apologetically and offering to deactivate her account. After she replied, the topic magically vanished where I assume it was moved to its proper forum.
Do you see how these women irresponsibly run their forum without even having the "decency" to make sure their catty tearing up of members is kept secret? They could care less if they leave emotionally fragile daughters of narcissists feeling blamed and embarrassed. Danu and Light are TAKING THE PLACE of our narcissistic mothers' roles complete with gaslighting and invalidation in a place that is supposed to be meant for HEALING! This is an outrage and just plain nauseating.
Getting back to my experience, when I checked back again later to see if Danu or Light had responded to me, I was greeted with this message upon logging in:
You have been permanently banned from this board.
A ban has been issued on your IP address.
I couldn't believe it. I wrote one last message to Danu demanding an explanation, but as you can probably predict, I never got a reply.
I was and still am incredibly thankful that by doing a google search of bans at Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers forum, I found Soaring Dove's blog. It gave me the validation that I so desperately needed - that I was not alone or had done anything wrong, but rather Danu and her cohorts are a bunch of insensitive, money hungry individuals who use the emotionally fragile psyches of abused daughters to make an easy buck. All you need to do is go to Danu's website to see the money signs staring you right in the face. She is constantly ramming the EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) down people's throats as if it's a cure-all to psychological problems and making her own little DVDs/booklets as if she invented it. She also looks for donations and states that they are used to pay her bills. There is even an Amazon link at the top of her page and it says next to it, "If you make your purchases through this link it will help with the running costs of this site." So many things scream, "GIVE ME MONEY" on her site, it's sickening. Soaring Dove delves into deeper description about this in addition to her own experience with Danu, so see her blog to learn more. This is her latest blog entry about Danu's dirty deeds.
Interestingly enough, my google search showed another ex-member abused at the hands of Danu. Here is the link and I will provide the excerpt:
"I wanted to thank you for accepting me not only to your Facebook page, but again for posting my story to your website. To my dismay, I tried to join that Daughters Of Narcissistic Mothers website which was so pinpoint accurate to my gruesome upbringing and wherein Danu said "everybody" was welcome, but she yanked my posts (which were mild/toned down as opposed to the graphic one I'd posted on your website) and she banned me, claiming I wouldn't be helped "whatsoever" by joining her website, which she said was for everyone. I was shocked, for I was being honest; would it have been better if I had sugar-coated or lied about my existence? [...] I was very polite and honest and cannot fathom why my posts could have been deemed offensive or how on Earth that woman, who doesn't even use her real name, could sit in on judgement (I know it's judgment, but think it looks wrong without that "E" on there) when all I did was ask to read what everybody had posted. I just am so upset to be shunned by yet somebody else whose existence practically mirrored mine."Here you have it, yet another member unjustly banned from Danu's forum. It's real nice to tell someone they can't be helped and ban them, isn't it? Danu and her staff ban people for multiple insane reasons, not just the crazy unclear code of conduct at her forum. The place is nothing more than an online dictatorship. After my veryluckysallycherry account was banned and I viewed it from the second account, it did not appear banned - it looked as though I was still an active member. God only knows how many people are banned and shut out, while the remaining members are lulled by a false sense of comfort. Sure, it just "appears" that a once very active member like myself who was randomly banned just decided to stop posting. There is no "banned" title below their name as is seen at many other message boards. Same goes for topics they feel are "too sensitive" - they make them "disappear" as they do with members. Danu takes people she feels are a threat to her narcissistic ego and discards them like yesterday's trash, all the while maintaing her glorified image as the caring and well-spoken administrator. The biggest joke of all is the "Health Site Award" on the bottom of her page.
I still wonder at times what it was about me that Danu saw as a threat and made her to decide to cut me off without warning. Her excuse for getting rid of Soaring Dove was merely mentioning her religion and the girl whose post I quoted above was banned for posting "too sensitive" information. I never spoke about my faith and I never had posts of mine deleted, so I really have no clue why they prefabricated a non-existent reason to ban me. Perhaps because I never donated money? Who knows, and who really cares. I found a wonderful place at WoN and if Danu had never banned me, I would probably still be posting at that dictatorship.
What I do care about is getting the truth out and spreading it to all daughters of narcissistic mothers, whether you are contemplating joining Danu's forum or are currently a member there. I know it may be hard for you to realize if you are currently posting there, I can speak from experience. What hurt the most when I was banned from that place was that I was torn away from the friendships I had established with the lovely women there without a way to contact them. The fear of losing those friendships and the validation you receive from your friends at that place is definitely enough to blind you to the proof of Danu's insanity - but I urge you to open your eyes to the truth that all of us unjustly banned ex-members offer to you. I, along with anyone else who has come forward, have nothing to gain by speaking about what has happened to us. I'm not trying to get you to join WoN or any other online group. The purpose of this blog is to warn and save you from hurt. Maybe you will be lucky enough to be spared from a ban, but maybe not. As I said, I still can't come up with a reason for my ban, so Danu clearly doesn't ban with rationality guiding her.
Interestingly enough, Danu replied to Soaring Dove's blog recently, which is full of what I see as pretty big indicators of NPD. If you ask me, I think her decision to respond is because she's starting to worry about all the people beginning to come out and speak about her dirty deeds. Honestly, does she really believe treating her members as though they are expendable would result in them staying silent and not complaining about the injustice done to them?
Bottom line is, everyone's dirty deeds eventually come to the surface and I am very glad that I have finally found the time in my busy schedule to write this blog entry. I can only hope that more and more people continue to come forward with their stories to provide even more validation for the abused and insight to those blinded by Danu's glittering generalities. In conclusion, I feel that it is absolutely disgusting to take advantage of and abuse people who are emotionally fragile because they are easy, trusting targets for the first sign of understanding/validation. Danu, you should be ashamed of yourself.
- Sugar
Sugar, Thank you for sharing what you know about this NVamp who refers to her own members/customers as "*food*, to be trapped, hunted, or farmed". I pray people are beginning to see her True Identity & it wont take a bite from her salivating fangs to break the N-chantment & Cloaking Spells she casts on others.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was first banned I thought, okay she hates, Christians who refuse to worship at the thrown of Danu, then I discovered by another former DONM member her hatered towards ALL believers when Danu posted her ugly words on that Hate Mongers website and so desperately wanted to fit it w/them, and gain their admiration for hating Believers. Then Kate shared how Danu refers to ALL of her members/customers as "food", dehumanizing & objectify so that she can use and abuse people w/out feeling one bit of remorse and TRIES to justify her evil agenda & attacks.
Sugar, you are Sweet, but you are nobody's "food"!
Thank you for being brave and helping to expose this Counterfeit who is a N is Sheep's Clothing.
May God continue to bless you.
I was part of the same forum and I remember some of your posts. I never had any problems while I was there, but I reached a point where I had significantly healed and was ready to move on. I noticed there was no way to delete my own account, which is odd in itself, so I emailed Danu and asked if she could delete it for me. I was respectful and polite. She wrote back and said I could just stop going or she could physically delete it for me. I chose the latter. I went to log in the next day to see if it had been taken care of and I got the message that I had been permanently banned from using the forum. The reason given for the ban was that I had asked for my account to be deleted. I had to laugh about it. It's really not run very professionally. There's no other place on the net that I know of that permanently bans you when you ASK to be deleted. Too funny! It was like "you can't QUIT, I FIRE you!" Hee hee. Yes, it accomplished what I wanted accomplished so it didn't bug me at all. It seemed like she was experiencing insecurity because someone no longer wanted to be part of her forum. Can you say issues?? I think she's really got some! It was a four year old's solution to a simple adult problem. I hope she's able to work through her issues. As for me, I'm moving on. It's not healing to stay stuck in one spot.
ReplyDeleteSoaring Dove, you're very welcome! I hope people are beginning to see her true colors, too. Every time I see a new comment or follower for this blog, I count it as a blessing. It gives me hope that I'm helping, along with the other ladies coming forward, to open people's eyes and spare them of the hurt we experienced there. People like Danu may get away with pulling shady crap in life, but sooner or later, the truth always comes out. And God Bless you too, Soaring Dove! :)
ReplyDeleteAABBCCD, if you don't mind me asking, what was your username on DoNM? And I am totally not surprised at your experience. Like you said, it definitely seems like insecurity is a major factor guiding Danu's decisions. She banishes ANY talk of religion and automatically bans people who merely mention it, as though saying the word "God" will cause her skin to peel off - clearly, religion makes her insecure. Your healing and not needing her anymore made her insecure, so she banned you as if she needed that last word. A very childish and narcissistic mentality, indeed. I see so many parallels between my mother and Danu - both very control/"eye-for-an-eye" oriented and threatened when people offer different opinions.
"She banishes ANY talk of religion and automatically bans people who merely mention it, as though saying the word "God" will cause her skin to peel off - clearly, religion makes her insecure."
ReplyDeleteI didn't find this to be true in my case. My entire situation that I shared on the board right from my very first post, and talked about there for the better part of a year, surrounded my shared Christian religion with my NFOO. I played by the rules and did not specifically name my religion or preach to anyone, or bash the religions of anyone else. I didn't just "merely mention it", it was the focus of almost all of my posts. I was still able to effectively get my point across, receive the help and insight I needed at the time, and I never once came close to being banned for it.
I also never contributed financially to the site nor was I ever asked to so I have a hard time seeing that as an issue as to why people are banned.
I was banned for asking to leave the forum.
I agree she has issues but I'm not so clear on what they are beyond severe NFleas, if not actual developed Ntraits.
Well, I can't say for sure if money is one of her reasons for banning people because I don't have any proof of it, and as you can see from my blog, I won't make a concrete statement without providing evidence for it. But do I think it could be a reason? Yeah, I think it's a possibility. Anything is possible with this woman. She banned me (and others) without warning and contrived a false reason for it, so banning people for not donating doesn't seem much crazier than that in my eyes. From what I have seen, I do believe that Danu's motivation for running her sites under both her Danu Morrigan/Tracy Culleton aliases are based heavily on gaining money. But that's just my opinion based on what I see. As I mentioned already, all over her website and forum and even in her forum signature are ads pushing her EFT products and donating so she can run her forum.
ReplyDeleteI'm actually very surprised that you were able to talk about religion at all. When I was there, people seemed conditioned to just not talk about it at all, like it was a taboo subject. In general, people seemed very scared to break rules and would create topics apologizing hand over fist if they accidentally did something "wrong" (which is a sign to me that something is off with the administration there, I even found this odd when I was an active member there). But getting back to your comment, based on what you have said, Soaring Dove's mention of religion was not much different than yours and she played by the rules as well. I'm not sure what frame of time you were at DoNM, but maybe Danu got more uptight over religion with time.
In my opinion, I think Danu is beyond simply having NFleas. I always thought fleas were having N tendencies but not being or acting outright narcissistic (correct me if I'm wrong about this). To me, her actions are too much like a narcissist to be fleas.
There is no question this was birthed as a marketing idea. Check out this link. http://www.warriorforum.com/copywriting-forum/265453-sales-page-review.html
DeleteI also question her claims that EFT is for "Removing mental blocks or limiting beliefs and replacing them with more empowering beliefs... literally re-programming our subconscious so that it works for us, rather than against us."
It takes cognitive rehabilitation therapy to rewrite trauma based messages your mind sends you. If it were this easy, nobody would need therapists.
I tried EFT and it did nothing for me. Tapping is not going to create a new inner dialogue.
CRT helped me slowly create new reactions to old thoughts. It takes months or years of contact with a licensed clinical therapist to discuss your progress as you break down the old triggers and replace them with new reality based awareness. You also journal each time you do this. Eventually you create a new dialogue in your mind.
I did not overcome programming by my FOO and NM overnight. I still work on it.
I have seen many, many websites that promote total no contact. In my opinion, not everyone needs to go no contact. With clinical support some people can be strong in the presence of their NM. Each case is different.
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ReplyDelete(had some grammar mistakes in prior post, trying to post w/little DD interruptions)
ReplyDeleteAABBCCDD, when you shared about your NFOO and your Christian beliefs, was it how the NFOO used Christianity to Control you, shame you, and hurt you, make you feel Lesser-Than, or was it how it Uplifted, Encouraged Inspired, Healed, and Freed you? When I was a DONM member people were allowed to say how Christianity has harmed them (fair enough, but it is not Christianity that is harmful, but the Counterfeit Christians/Ns who twist God's word to hurt others in order to manipulate and control, still people are entitled to their own opinions). Unfortunately Danu only allowed one side to be presented, and to say how Christianity has empowered them and freed them from guilt w/having to stay in contact w/NM was not allowed.
The Ns attacks are not always consistent or constant which makes it very confusing, Why is okay this time, but not the next? Have you ever heard of Intermittent Reinforcement? Well with Ns there is Intermittent Attacks/Abuse.
The N in Sheep's Clothing is very deceptive, because s/he creates Cognitive Dissonance, how can someone so insightful & helpful be so harmful at the same time? It is hard for our minds to accept that someone who appears to be so kind can also be so very mean, hurtful, abusive and even dangerous.
It is hard to believe that someone would ban another person for just mentioning the word God, or for not financially contributing to her business, or for just asking that your membership account be deleted instead of banned.
Flea bites eventually heal, Victims of Ns who are Damaged eventually heal, but the Disordered keep on hurting people to maintain their false sense of Superiority as in banning someone instead of simply deleting the account, the Deception & Illusion was that the N appears to be giving you a choice and respecting your decision, but when it differed from hers that is when the N drops the mask.
When confronted about their mistakes, the Damaged person w/issues can learn from their mistakes, but the Disordered only try to justify their attacks, as with the N in Sheep's Clothing Cover-Up. The Disordered/Ns have no regret and have no remorse for repeatedly hurting others, no matter how many people confront them on their issues. It does not matter, because it is their Nism that makes them believe that they are always right and others are always wrong & must pay for defying them.
One isolated situation may appear that the person is merely flea bitten and has issues, but if we weigh (all) the evidence from all the victims we will reach a different conclusion.
Did you know that Danu admits to referring to her own members/clients as "*food*, to be trapped, hunted, or farmed"?
Here is the link to more Smoking Gun evidence that demonstrates the difference between a person w/issues vs. a person w/Nism
"*food*, to be trapped, hunted, or farmed"
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2010/12/narcissist-in-sheeps-clothing-cover-up.html
AABBCCDD when Danu gave you the option, keep your membership active yet not use it creating the Illusion that you are still a member, or deleting your account showing that you are no longer an active member, you made the wrong choice (in her N mind) and for that you would have to pay, by being Banned. As you excellently pointed out, you were not allowed to Quit, but you were FIRED, demonstrating that the N still has control/power over you and thus (again in her N mind) is Superior to you, In Addition to creating a deception to others that you did something wrong (again in her mind you did because you no longer want to be apart of her KoN, how dare you leave and let others know you are willingly leaving on your own) so you were Banned, so they better be good little puppets and do exactly what the Puppet Master wishes or else they too will suffer the same consequences of being Banned.
I was banned for no damned reason too.In fact, I had JUST gone no contact and was feeling particularly fragile so--uh Danu--thanks for the crappy timing. Conclusion control-freak Danu is an abuser and *probably*, herself is NPD operating under the guise of (phony) 'compassion'...much like child abuser often frequent schools, victim of NPD abusers run a site which attracts just those people. DANU: Exposed.
ReplyDeleteI had the same experience, but I left due to treatment. see my comment here. I feel your pain.
DeletePS: Instruction how to do that mind-blowingly SIMPLISTIC technique of EFT are FREE all over YouTube.No need to blow $ on learning to do EFT.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b15Zhu6fEdg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQp0kA5a5OI
I was banned last Saturday. I'd returned to the board after several months of not posting, with the intent of encouraging some ladies (I tried not to start many posts asking for help for myself).
ReplyDeleteA poster had said that her NM had passed away, but that she had peace. She said she was going to leave it to God to heal her NM, because SHE never could. I simply wrote back (with my condolences) that I admired her for letting God deal with things, being a chronic "fixer" myself.
I received a PM saying that my reply (as well as the original post) had been edited, and that I needed to read the rules of the forum before posting again. I responded by saying that I probably wouldn't be posting anymore, anyway. But, I never asked to be completely booted off, as I'd made some friends online and wanted access to my PM's from some of them.
I got a message back, saying, "We will delete your account for you." Next thing I knew, I was banned. An e-mail to the administrator came back undelivered. I sent another from another account, but received no reply. How cowardly, IMO. Not posting is no reason to ban anyone; if you check their members list, probably half the members there have never posted a single time.
All I can say is, shame on them. There is nothing in the original rules that says we cannot even remotely mention God, even if all we're doing is affirming another poster's faith. Thumping someone over the head with a Bible when they don't want to hear it is one thing, what I did was another. Obviously, anyone with any faith in anything besides EFT isn't welcome there.
I was hurt and depressed all day. I'd received several PM's from Danu and Light in the past, and thought they were sincere. I thought I'd found an oasis is the desert, on the DONM forum, with so many ladies I had so much in common with. What a slap in the face.
I'm sorry, but I just can't help but to think of pedophiles and other abusers, and how many of them were abused in the same manner as children. Some people seem to continue what was done to them, after they grow up. They play the same head games my own NM did, BFF one day, don't ever darken my doorstep again the next. It's a pity they can't see this for themselves.
My own NM was devoutly "religious," forcing us to go to church all the time and using her beliefs to scare us kids into oblivion. But, I don't hold it against Catholics or Christians of any stripe, because I know now what God is really like and that it isn't fair to hold against sincere people of faith, what SOME have done wrong. And Danu's description of Christians is totally wrong; true Christians are humble and kind, and the exact opposite of how she describes them. I feel very sorry for her, that she feels as she does.
I'm so glad I'm not alone here! Thank you Sugar (I remember your posts as veryluckysallycherry).
I am so glad I found you. I was a member of the DONM forum for two days before I was banned with the message "This account has been deleted at the discretion of SiteManagement due the forum is not a good fit for your needs. This decision is final and not open for discussion."
ReplyDeleteI had read lots of stories on the forum and late last night, I shared my own story. I felt wonderful free this morning, and like I was on the brink of starting something new and positive in my life. Then I tried to log on and discovered I'd been banned.
I felt violated, sick, and finally, fearful. Irrationally, it occurred to me that maybe someone who knew my mother recognized her in my post and had me banned. I began to fear that I was about to receive a nasty phone call or worse. After feeling immobilized with dread for a bit, I finally had the presence of mind to Google "Banned from DONM" and I found you.
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences. I am appalled that moderators of a forum that purportedly exists to help a victim of past trauma would behave in such a way as to reinforce all her fears. I'm glad I'm strong enough to deal with this reasonably well, but ugh. I think my heart is still pounding.
I got banned in two days too! Join the two day club. I'm so charming and sweet. Why didn't they like me? It's a mystery.
DeleteIn my banned email, I was threatened that I had been reported to my ISP. What a joke. Did she really expect they would flag my internet account?
Not at the price I am paying for internet. I've been a customer for fifteen years. With what I've paid them I could have bought a new car.
Hi smallbluething,
ReplyDeleteI'm so glad you found me, too. I'm so sorry you were yet another victim of Danu's abuse. It looks to me like their "support group" is being run in an even more and more insane fashion as time is going on. Now it only takes two days before they ban members??
Apparently, something about your story didn't "rub them the right way" in their dictatorship pathetic excuse for a message board and they delete anyone who is a "threat" to them. Exactly how us posting our experiences is a threat to them, I will never really understand. I definitely feel like money is a primary motivator to Danu, but I wonder if she gets some sort of sick pleasure out of controlling/messing with people like this.
It's absolutely DISGUSTING and angers me how Danu's bullshit (in plain English) was responsible for making you feel so paranoid and fearful. This sick excuse for a human being just screws with people KNOWING we are fragile and abused by our NMs, yet continues to do so for whatever her sick reasons. I'm really glad you managed to think of google searching and that it put your fears to rest.
If you wish to, you should consider blogging about the experience you had there..the more people putting the truth out there, the better and hopefully more DoNMs will avoid that hellhole. I have also found that blogging really can set you free and help get rid of any nasty feelings the experience created for you.
I still find myself shocked from time to time that this woman can get away with administering narcissistic abuse at a place that is supposed to support victims of NPD. O_o
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ReplyDeleteI happened upon your blog and two other blogs by "Soaring Dove" after doing a google search "banned from DoNM." I was very upset about this action as I was only a forum member for two weeks and received no warning and NO EXPLANATION. What is particularly harmful about their practice of banning people in this manner is that they are re-injuring people who are scarred by similar treatments from their Mothers or FOO. Some are scapegoats where "shunning" is a common practice.
ReplyDeleteOnly after reading the comments here (and over at Soaring Dove's blogs) can I understand WHY I was banned. While I never "initiated" any blogs speaking about God, I did respond to people who did. I recommended a book to a poster. The book is named "People of the Lie" by M. Scott Peck who is a Christian author. I also recommended a book to another poster. The book is named "Getting the Love you Want" by Harville Hendrix. I own that particular book and it is a secular book. However, when I did a google search, something "Christian" was associated with it. Perhaps H.H. (author) is a Christian author. Another poster mentioned the book "Boundaries" by Cloud & Townsend. I replied to her because I live in SoCal and have actually attended their weekly seminars in the past.
What is disturbing and harmful about their "rules" is that they go too far in inhibiting people to speak in their own voice. Children of Narcissistic abuse already learned to "WALK ON EGGSHELLS" and if they find a forum like that, they probably assume, like I did, that it would be mostly "safe." The rules enforce:
1) No religion
2) No posts about sexual abuse
3) No posts about wanting to harm yourself or others.
I understand these rules and in a one week period, many people were CITED for VIOLATIONS. It bothered me that these ladies would post new topics saying "I'm so sorry I posted..." or "What did I do wrong?" They turn us into quivering daughters again. Shame on THEM. I never saw any "reasonable" posts explaining gently why someone should avoid such topics and now I know why....Danu (Tracy Culleton hates God). It's one thing to "evangelize" and "protelyze" but to just reference God as it applies to your recovery is normal.
I agree! I'm so glad it seems more and more people are coming to see the Donm site for what it is, an UNSAFE place where all are NOT welcome.
ReplyDeleteI never attempted to preach or convert anyone, either (see my above post under "ratmommy"). I was booted off anyway.
To Whispers on the Wind:
ReplyDeleteYour comments on this blog have been coming to my e-mail, but I don't see them on the blog here...not sure why...maybe you could try contacting "Sugar"?
Take care...
Ah, at least someone's seeing it, Bobo. :D I'll explain more of it on my own blog. If you don't mind, would you mind posting the link for me? Thanks. :D
ReplyDeletehttp://whispersonthewind24.blogspot.com/2011/06/my-experiences-and-hi-d.html
Otherwise, I don't appear to have any other way to contact anybody.
Naturally, now the comment goes through. I guess I didn't have to write the blog after all. Ahh well, at least I don't have to worry about character restraints.
ReplyDeleteHi Whispers, I also received your comments via email. Since I'm a newbie, I was really confused. Hopefully, your comments will show up soon.
ReplyDeleteI'll check out your blog too. :)
Bobo/ratmommy - I'm sorry you had to experience that with "DoNM." After reading so much on the various blogs, I think WE are the lucky ones. That doesn't negate the severe sting and possible re-injury to more vulnerable forum members. Most women wouldn't be "active" on a forum lest they were pretty "raw" and needing support. The idea of suffering a form of narcissistic rage as "I'll show you, you're BANNED," is just diabolical.
ReplyDeleteI was raw and needing support. I never used god references, I am not a Christian. The timing of their abuse and the walking on eggshells feeling really was the worst. I had gone NC and had nobody. I hate the thought of them still doing this. Narcs just disgust me. My whole life has been less because of them. Not anymore.....thanks for your post
Deleteon Tracy's website, she says that she has gotten rid of a lot of "trouble makers, trolls & N's." I think if you asked the forum members, they would vehemently disagree that I follow into any of those. I merely supported those who broke the rules in a reasonable way. I think the what got me the boot, in hindsight, is saying something to a forum poster who said "I'm sorry, I didn't know,...." that if the forum mods didn't refer her to a place that could help her (post was about sexual abuse) that if she sends me a PM, I would help her.
ReplyDeleteThat probably slighted Danu/Tracy but again, why do we have to walk on eggshells when we are trying to heal from that very thing with our narcissistic Mothers?
Hi Cheshire and Whispers! I'm so sorry to hear that you both found yourself to be victims of Danu, but I am really glad you managed to find me. I hope my blog brought you some validation as LettingGo's blog did when Danu burned me, leaving me incredibly confused and upset.
ReplyDeleteCheshire, while I was an active member there, I found it ridiculous that those three "rules" of DoNM that you mentioned are rules to begin with. How can one find healing if she is can't talk about ALL the details of her abusive experience? I mean, really, we're all above the legal age. There are no children on the site. I think it would thoroughly suffice to put a "warning: graphic content" in the title of a thread to warn those who may be sensitive or squeamish to such imagery. Danu seems to like treating her members like they are children who need to be censored because if you ask me, it's HER who is bothered by reading such things. I have my doubts that she is actually worrying very much for the welfare of her members.
And yes, I have seen far too many of the "I'm sorry" threads there when I was a member and I honestly couldn't take it when I saw those. Even before I realized what a monster Danu was, I used to feel extreme annoyance towards her when I saw how her cold attitude and vague rules triggered those threads from members. She was acting EXACTLY like a NM - punishing her "daughters" without reason and then swooping in with "reassurance" when those threads were posted. I bet those threads fed her ego. What a sicko.
And this may be a shot in the dark, but maybe Danu hates God so much because He is actually a threat to her status as the "loved admin mother figure" that everyone goes to for help after being scarred by their own NM. Think about it - if believers posted on her board and got others to start considering God as a source of healing, wouldn't that take from Danu's power and authority? After all, if people start going to the Bible over Danu's "booklets and DVDs", she would see less money. And psychologically, those who find healing through a higher power won't solely rely on Danu for reassurance and guidance.
It's just a theory, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some validity in it. I seriously think, for whatever reason (be it religion or anything else), when Danu sees a member that is no longer extremely emotionally weak and yearning solely for her guidance, they get the ban ax. I never referred to God other than saying "Thank God", so I was totally bewildered as to why I was banned. But as my membership went on for a couple of months, I was no longer writing about how damaged I was because nothing was nothing going on with my NM at the time, and I was offering guidance and help to the other members. Maybe she saw me as a "threat" that way.
And Whispers, all your posts also got sent to my e-mail address. I thought the things you had to say were very insightful and should definitely be read by others. If it's okay with you, could I make a blog post quoting what you said so others can see it? I will only do so if you give me permission. :)
Forgive me-I am sure this isn't how blogging works, but I am new to it-just since finding this site.I have made many comments here on this thread. I thank you for your post. I wonder if you have heard of how she triangulates? I met a lady on the site that \I hit it off with because her story was my own really and she told her \I had said something about her. I don't know what because she never spoke anymore to me. The place was electric with sickness but I was so vulnerable and alone then that I couldn't tell.
DeleteThank you for the thoughtful reply. I'm very glad that I found your blog. I'm brand new here but I think I'll write one too since I found you and "letting go" just doing a googled search "banned from DoNM.
ReplyDeleteI agree with EVERY POINT you made here. In fact, it dawned on me that perhaps my getting stronger and having the time to support the other forum members may have been a "threat" to her. Nothing about it makes any SENSE but then you can't reason with unreasonable people. Danu demonstrated that she is unreasonable in her rules. I think the reason people post things that might be "sensitive content" is b/c they do not think they are crossing a line. I think we all read the rules but didn't think our posts would be cited as "violations." As you said, we are adults.
After the woman who posted about sexual abuse (and she DID put *sensitive content*), she wrote a new topic saying "I'm so sorry......." I replied saying that I remember the post and that if the forum mods did not refer her to another forum, that I would help her find one if she wanted. This must have ticked The Queen Bee off. I really thought I was being supportive but knowing now how this particular N operates, this is a HUGE threat. You know, the more I think about it and analyze it, I have ZERO DOUBT that Danu is a full-blown NARCISSIST. She exhibits this in her demand for unquestioned obedience and while it may just be a theory, I tend to agree that she doesn't like the idea of "God" being that he is omnipotent and all.
Any person who is "extreme" in what they DO with their beliefs, or lack thereof, is usually not a person that can be trusted to take another persons thoughts and feelings into consideration. Good riddance to DoNM. I hope others find there way here. Thanks again.
just thought I'd let you know that I posted a blog on this subject today and referenced your blog:
ReplyDeletehttp://grinningcatinwonderland.blogspot.com/2011/06/banned-from-donm-support-forum-beware.html
ps apologies for my very poor typing, writing in a hurry with 2 very band-aided fingers.Was not very successful in the kitchen this morning...
ReplyDeletehmmmmm....for some reason, several new posts have come to my "inbox" but are not showing up here in the "comments" section of your blog.
ReplyDeleteBeccas12
sweetviolet
????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Wow, it's been two years since I was banned by Danu for a reason I wasn't able to figure out until recently. (She doesn't like it if you find healing and happiness and it's not because of her but in spite of her. You will be punished!)
ReplyDeleteDanu did a real number on Dr. McBride's web forum and caused great harm and hurt to the members there before she started DoNM. But you will never hear that truth from Danu, she can do no wrong, she's a Celtic Goddess if you hadn't heard. Ha!
When I found a really great therapist and started making progress which I shared with the DoNM forum, I was of course Zapped by the Great and Powerful Danu. Frankly she reminds me a bit of the Wizard of Oz, just a faker hiding behind the curtains.
I am really sorry to read that she is still hurting people. Sugar, good for you creating this blog to warn others.
Peace to you all.
Joonie
p.s. Should anyone waste their time visiting my blog link, please forgive me for my Snark, I was once a real ass. I'm much better now.
I received all those comments to my inbox, too. They were very insightful and should definitely be available for other daughters of N's to read. I'll paste those replies into a post so they are viewable.
ReplyDeleteAnd thanks for mentioning me in your blog, Cheshire! I will be sure to check it and I'm glad you thought what I wrote was good enough to include. :)
And thank you for sharing your experience, Joonie. I really like your analogy comparing Danu to the Wizard of Oz. It fits her perfectly because is nothing but a big fake trying to convey herself as wonderful and loving.
Tried to post my ban news today from DoNMs, but something called 'cookies' wouldn't let me.
ReplyDeleteSob!
Lady Nyo
Ok, now the cookies have all been eaten, so probably this will go through.
ReplyDeleteI was banned with no forthcoming reason from the site management today....Joined June 27, 2011 and banned today: August 25, 2011.
Reading through the comments, all I can guess, (and they are a little slow on the take here) was I have mentioned a number of times M. Scott Peck's book: "People of the Lie" as being the very first book I read concerning NPD.
I am 63, NM is 91 and still vicious. My abuse was over 6 decades and I am amazed that I have survived. I have a wonderful therapist for the past 5 years and this has made an incredible difference in my life. I am also an author of 3 published books, and people on the site have asked me about them and writing. I had a signature of my writing blog at the end.
I was reeling when I got the ban message this morning....DoNMs don't take further rejection well, considering our lives with NM, FOOs, etc. LOL~
I called my therapist, who reads that site, and perhaps it is a good thing in retrospect. I was spending a lot of time over there, and she knows I am a dedicated writer. Posters from there have come over to my blog curious about my writings and about the few articles I have posted (and praised DoNMs website). We wonder what is going on here?
So,I wish the best to Danu/Light, etc....and that site...but this unexplained ban feels like more NM abuse.
Lady Nyo
Just a further short comment. It seems that there is a lot of this on the internet: so-called 'healing' groups that really are questionable. Perhaps it's because the leaders aren't trained in psychology in general, but fly by the seat of their pants? The membership seem honest but on occasion there are a few very disturbed individuals who resist all attempts at getting therapy for themselves, don't want a therapist to 'mess with their genuine self', shuck and jive with their stories, etc and resist attempts by posters to really do anything for themselves.
ReplyDeleteMy therapist warned me about on-line groups around narcissism, etc. Perhaps I should have listened more closely.
I can't begin to think of the inestimable damage they have done to people who really are in crisis. I, for one, have had my eyes opened, and will use my blog to warn people of this.
Lady Nyo
I have not been banned as of yet, but after reading blogs like this, I am prepared. For some time I have thought that that the tapping is lame and that Danu has been popping up at opportune times with newbies. I tried it once and can't imagine why this would helpful. Light keeps coming on, when ever she decides there needs to be a solid opinion on what is narcissistic or not. She writes well, and some of it is excellent, but she gets it wrong more times than right - we have all lived this and how dare she pontificate - she is the Queen of Invalidation and Quackery. That is fine if she is just expressing her opinion, but she acts like an expert and that could really be a problem for people just starting out the process of looking for answers.
ReplyDeleteI want to say that Danu's site has changed my life for the better. Because she is obviously doing this for the money, she provides a place where people can easily and consistently communicate. It is the women on there sharing, that the value is in, not that. Like many women, I would have done anything to have that validation. Yet as many have said, we walk on eggshells and have this sense that, we need to get off after a point. If not we will be pushed.
I am a born again Christian. Never did I reveal that. Our Lord works with imperfect situations. What this experience has taught me, is that we need a well run site for people who what to deal with, "Honor thy father and mother", and cannot. A place where everyone can come (believers and non), and just talk about these things. Without books, systems, tapping, or an agenda. Sisters in Christ, is there someone to take up the call? It is needed. Writing a blog is great, but we need our own forum.
BANNED BY DANU ON DoNM
ReplyDeleteIt happened to me, too. I was experiencing one of the most intensely vulnerable times in my life. I did an online search, found the DoNM site, read it, and realized that my mother fits their descriptions of a Narcissistic Personality, about 95%. So I joined DoNM, I carefully read all the rules, and then I carefully and laboriously wrote a post on the “My Story” site... making sure that I didn't break any of the rules.
The next day I tried to log on, to see if anyone had replied to my post, and found that I was BANNED, with no explanation other than I wasn't a good fit, and as the notice said, the decision was not up for appeal. Devastated, I then sent an email to the witch, I mean woman, who runs the site, asking if this was an error? I told her that I didn't mean to post anything wrong, and begged her to please tell me if I had unknowingly said something wrong, and give me the chance to correct it. On the subject line of my email to Danu, I put: Please have MERCY & tell me why I'm BANNED. I never got a reply.
It was like the last straw, during a hell of a time of intense, horrible recent loss and abuse. I became suicidal. My husband took me to the hospital emergency room. I was put on an antidepressant. The day I went to the hospital was June 26, almost 4 months ago, and I am just now beginning to be able to live again.
I'm so sorry that others have been hurt like this!!! It was like my Nmother's shunning and casting out into eternal outer darkness, all over again! I am 58 years old, but Danu made me feel like I am still 5.
Blessings to all of you~
Lynda
Lynda, I am so very very sorry that you went through that. I believe that Danu is a MALIGNANT NARCISSIST and gets a perverse pleasure from her actions. She is the wicked step mother and wants only GIRLS, not women, whom she can reign psychological terror on. I have not since gone anywhere near a "support forum" for this or any other reason. Sick individuals like Danu and Light are the epitomy of sociopathy. They are well aware of how this impacts some individuals and yet they do not change. They feel no empathy and no remorse.
ReplyDeleteI think this is the worst kind of abuse because people do not sign up for a support forum unless they are reaching out for help. The idea that at such times, this kind of abuse happens to them is unthinkable and makes me extremely angry.
Unfortunately, Danu (Tracey Culleton) is just a small little woman behind the curtain (like Oz). She has no real power in her life. She's PATHETIC.
You need to get well. Write to me if you need an ear.
So again, not that I was in a crisis or needing to vent or even needing to share, I logged on out of pure curiosity. I end up in the My Story part of the forum. I started reading some of the messages and felt my heart shatter--I have been made whole, and at times once you find that peace in your life- you do move on so completely that you forget how horrid it was for you when you lived with the NM or just escaped the NM or first tried to set up boundaries with the NM or finally went to No Contact with your NM. I was reading these post on the My story from poor people still so trapped and hurting. A few of the post I even read and thought to myself "I can tell them the best way to handle that issue with their narcissist mother."
ReplyDeleteI ended up posting ONE message in the MY Story forum..It was called from Wounded to Healing or Broken but Healed..I cant even remember what I wrote in the title two days ago..lol..The point was I wrote a really LONG entry and wanted the title to say "YOU can get over this and move on!" I gave my story--listed all the very similar things I had been through at the hands of my NM--then gave things any of them suffering could do or put into practice that I had discovered helped me.
I did mention the name of God once in the whole post--but I also described how my NM had used church and organized religion to feed on and to abuse with, but I went on to say that part of overcoming their control is not to blame the things they use like church or people or siblings, but to deal with the fact that the narcissist HAS a disorder--one they wont admit to or get help from--I explained how the true secret to overcoming the pain was knowing the difference between guilt and regret. That you can not live with guilt and be a productive or happy person--that guilt was what the NM had force fed us on from birth in order to keep the pain fresh and there for her to feed upon. I had said it was perfectly fine to feel regret...you can regret the lack of a relationship with your mother or the pain the disorder caused you..but the difference between guilt and regret was that you can live peacefully with regret.
(3 post to get it all)
Ok....after a while, and my banning has been over 7 months...I believe that Danu is actually a sadist. Only sadists weild their power in such demeaning and unresponsive ways. I have had three years with a male sadist, and believe me....she fits the profile.
ReplyDeleteWhat really hurts though is this: We have been so conditioned by our NMs to take this kind (Danu's) of behavior, and to find it ...ONCE AGAIN...in a forum the purportedly says it's bringing healing...is the ultimate betrayal.
All I can say is this: if THIS is healing...what further damage do daughters of narcissist mothers get? It's like being seduced by your therapist (and this happened to me decades ago)...The violations just keep on coming and the betrayals do too.
Lady Nyo
I agree. I think she is a narcissist and a sadist. She gets too much pleasure from peoples pain and has no regard for what people are feeling'
DeleteAnother one bites the dust! Got banned from that site last night! Honestly, I'm not sure if I broke the rules regarding religion, because they weren't terribly clear. I thought I was following them. I also thought that if I inadvertently broke one, I'd receive a warning. And if management really had to ban me permanently without warning, I'd think sending me a message telling me I'd been banned and why would have been courteous rather than letting me go to log in and finding the door locked and what amounts to a "keep out" sign posted across a formerly welcoming entry. Heck, it would have been nice to get to go in and clean my desk out, so to speak, but I can't even contact the women I'd had PM discussions with, give them my email address and let them know what happened. If this behavior is not abuse, I don't know what is.
ReplyDeleteI understand that feeling so well. I like your "clean my desk out" metaphor. When I was banned from DoNM, the fact that I couldn't go in there anymore to contact the women I had gotten close with was the worst thing for me. I could care less about never seeing again one of Danu's posts with her signature loaded with links to her charlatan products. It was the sudden cut off from the community and women whose friendship I valued there that hurt the most.
DeleteHonestly..I was a rebel and re-registered under a different e-mail just so I could gain access to the boards again, lol. I used it as a way to contact some of the women I had been close with and share my experience with. I also used the account to spy on the boards and see if anymore insane crap went down there. But I stopped bothering to even do that after awhile because they cover things up in such a way that you only find out about their insanity through the mouth of those rejected from the community, not those who are unaware and actively posting in the community under the delusion that it's a place for healing. And frankly, I just stopped caring about DoNM. All I care about now in connection to Danu and DoNM is spreading the truth and helping others avoid the same hurt we experienced.
I joined this site a few weeks ago but never posted - I felt uneasy about it from the start especially the forum guidelines and before I'd even had the chance to be banned - I knew instinctively that my stories of physical abuse suffered were not wanted there. :/ Glad I followed my intuition. :/
ReplyDeleteHi, Epona! Even though it's over the internet, the hurt of people gaslighted and rejected are just as real as if your NM were doing it to you in person. I'm so glad to hear you followed your intuition and were spared of unnecessary additional trauma at the hands of Danu.
DeleteI was a member of the DoNM forum for several months. I joined not long after severing contact with my abusive mother, and it felt like a revelation. I talked through a number of issues, including quite intimate details. I met a number of people, some lovely, others less so. Sometimes I felt that I was learning, sometimes I was subtly uneasy at what was going on.
ReplyDeleteThe first time I fell foul of the unnamed "Admin", I received a message telling me that my post had been edited for religious content (I'm from a Jewish family). I had vague memories of mentioning something in passing, but no idea which post it was, nor what I had written. It turned out that they'd misinterpreted it anyway, and it wasn't really religious content rather than cultural background stuff which was relevant to the subject under discussion. I suggested rephrasing the post in a way that clarified any potential ambiguities, without removing the mention of Judaism, and the moderator agreed on this compromise. I felt that this gave me a good idea of what was and was not acceptable on the forum.
Meanwhile, a friend of mine was banned from the DoNM. She had cited a book by Alice Miller which discussed the dangers of our culture's devotion to the "honour thy father and mother" commandment. She was sent a warning, and when she objected, banned. I took note of this, but chose (warily) to remain on the forum for the time being as I was getting on well with several other forum members.
Then just last week, I tried to go to the forum and received the following message:
You have been permanently banned from this board.
Reason given for ban: Repeated TOU contraventions/issues
I was less surprised after what happened to my friend, and didn't bother contacting the administrator as I did not expect any response. My crime? I had mentioned in passing that I was from a Jewish family, and that the horrendous experiences of family dinners for Christmas and the Jewish festivals had put me off both for life. It was not in any way a religious comment, and I am in fact an atheist. It was about an entirely secular situation, just as most people's experience of Christmas is secular. Since the forum is full of people discussing Christmas and Easter, including the spiritual aspects, and there are prayer requests all over the place, I initially assumed that this was anti-Semitism. Now that I've learned more about how so many people have been suddenly banned, it seems like there doesn't need to be any particular reason.
Having thought it all over, I've noticed that this forum bears a striking similarity to what goes on in cults. I am not for a moment saying that this forum is a cult. But the similarities are worrying.
ReplyDelete1) Easy to enter - no control about leaving (admittedly in the opposite way to a cult, which traps you inside instead). One person reported that she asked the mod to delete her posts as she wanted to leave, and found that she'd been banned (with her posts left up) instead. People who join are vulnerable and desperate, easy to prey on.
2) Isolation from family encouraged, and isolation from other people frequently encouraged as well. This often went well beyond what was justifiable.
3) Heavy emotional support invested in forum - strongly built up to keep people there. Various people have noted that Danu likes to boot people out once they are no longer desperate and are functioning well on their own. This keeps the forum at a high emotional pitch.
4) Specialist language, in particular lots of acronyms and "buzz words". This changes how people think, and I think that reducing something to an acronym makes it more disposable, easier to ignore. It's much easier to ridicule and even discard a "FOO" than a "family".
5) People with actual expertise in the area are forbidden to talk about it, or even reveal their expertise (e.g. trained psychologists).
6) Rigid rules which are not fully explained; no one is allowed to question the rules, and they may be applied arbitrarily and inconsistently. The moderators cloak themselves in semi-anonymity, with people receiving messages from "Admin" rather than a named contact.
7) Lack of privacy - editing people's posts without even notifying them in advance, let alone asking permission.
8) Punishments for non-existent crimes - the banning sprees.
9) Extremes - a lot of people get classified as "Ns" regardless of their actual behaviour. NPD is probably not as common as this forum makes it out to be.
10) People were always being criticised for using the terminology (and by implication, behaving) incorrectly, e.g. someone would post in distress about how they'd read an email from their NM with whom they were in NC, and Light would jump in to point out that if they were reading an email, it wasn't NC. [That's "narcissistic mother" and "no contact" for those not aware of the acronyms.]
11) Peculiar and inconsistent attitude towards religion - perhaps because it's a rival belief system?
12) All signs of conflict are hidden away, usually by immediately purging the supposedly "troublesome" members. These are then gaslighted, described elsewhere as "trolls", although most forum members haven't a clue that these problems are occurring at all.
If you look at the BITE model http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html, it fits an awful lot, especially in the Thought Control section.
I agree!! To be booted off a site when you've already got a low self-image and a serious problem with feeling rejected, is the ultimate insult. I truly believe Danu/Tracy Cullen is the ultimate malignant narcissist, SO much like my own NM ("you go by MY rules, no being who you truly are, or else I have no use for you and will erase you out of my life").
DeleteAnd, you're right, I believe she sees faith in any higher power but herself, as a threat to her...exactly like my mother, who promptly told me, "You talk like someone who's mentally ill!" in response to a comment I made ("God is helping me.)
So glad I'm not alone here!
I don't think it's necessarily about "faith in a higher power" - she booted me off despite my saying that I was an atheist and talking about the secular side of Judaism, and she permits people to discuss the spiritual side of Easter as well as umpteen prayer requests. I'm guessing that Danu has been traumatised on the subject of religion and is very jumpy, so that things set her off unpredictably and she will then react with panic. Who knows.
DeleteAs for your mother's comment, it doesn't strike me as being about a higher power either - I've heard plenty of similar comments on the internet. It's about a total lack of boundaries and manners, black and white thinking, delight in ridiculing someone they perceive as being "silly", that sort of thing. I don't think that all the militant atheists on the internet who accuse people of mental illness for similar comments are necessarily narcissists.
Sugar, could you contact me via the LJ blog I've signed in with? It's just a minor matter, but I'd prefer to discuss it privately.
True...I never thought atheists were necessarily narcissists. My NM is not an atheist, but actually devoutly "religious." I attended Catholic school and was made to go to church and catechism regularly. She just has no rspect for anyone else's beliefs.
DeleteIMO, Danu has an issue with anything else besides her own method of "helping" someone. It doesn't have to be faith in God. You're right, who knows...
Rambling, I think you really hit the nail on the head with your list/summary. Perfect points and I think each and every one of them are correct. Even if Danu doesn't believe in a higher power or karma or whatnot, I don't get how she doesn't have a conscience that would make her feel worried that she could somehow seriously DAMAGE already emotionally fragile and traumatized women. Does she ever stop to think that she could be cutting off someone with suicidal or self mutilating tendencies, and that being rejected from a place they believed was a blessing/road to recovery could be enough to push them over the edge? HOW CAN THESE THINGS NOT BOTHER HER CONSCIENCE? It completely baffles me.
DeleteI remember reading somewhere in Danu's own words (don't remember if it was her personal website under Tracy Culleton or if it was on DoNM, may have been both) that her NM was religious and that was why she developed an aversion to organized religion/what it teaches. In my Danu "researching" online, I even came across posts by her on Atheist websites bashing and mocking Christians and Christianity.
Now she can feel how she wants about religion, but she's got no place dragging her personal issues with religion into a place meant for EVERYONE to heal and using it as a way to weed out people in her community in some absurd fashion. In general, Danu has no place running a place meant for healing if she has personal issues due to her NM that cause her to act in certain unfavorable ways.
Simply put, Danu has DoNM not to genuinely help people, but to make money and control people's actions/emotions. And in my book, this is downright evil.
I have added a link to this page from my blog "The Narcissist's Child." People need to be warned about this woman and about Light, who now has her own blog, LightsHouse, in which she plagiarizes people who write on the topic of narcissism and further compounds her sins by changing what they write to fit her own peculiar (and inaccurate) viewpoint.
ReplyDeleteThe more of us who speak out, the more people will believe what a money-hungry monster Danu and Light are.
http://narcissistschild.blogspot.com/p/beware-these-sites-1.html
when I left the site DoNM, I can't remember how I ended up at lights house but that was the next place \I went--pretty much the same day and feeling suicidal. I was questioned about Tracey and told she meant well.
Deletethese people are the worst of the worst. thank you for your blog-it is how I found all of this.
I am having a hard time accessing this blog with my LJ account. I hope it works this time.
ReplyDeleteI can add my name to the list of those who've been banned from the DoNM forum. Fortunately, in my case, the upset was temporary and short-lived. I was there mainly to do some research on the topic of survivors of NPD. I had grown up with a narcissistic mother, but I discovered this long ago and had a lot of recovery already. So I was not overly attached to being on the forum. Nevertheless it was a rather shocking thing to be banned so abruptly. And then to learn that this was the fate of so many others.
One of the odd things that stood out most for me on this forum, for the month that I was there, was that the membership seemed to be lopsided in favor of those with only minimal or no recovery. Most support groups I have been in, or helped to facilitate during the days when I was doing some counseling work, included people at various stages of recovery. This would make for a more well-rounded group experience, and give the members a greater sense of freedom within the group, and less dependency on the facilitators. The kind of disproportionate membership I saw on on the DoNM forum now appears to me to be less of an accident and more like a prearranged agenda. It has given the ones in charge (the moderators) far too much power over their needy and vulnerable members, a power that they seem to revel in and abuse, without much discretion, concern, or empathy for the hurt they are causing.
I am glad to see people speaking out about this. I only wish there was a way to warn people BEFORE they ended up there.
Hey kalibiza, thank you for sharing your experience. I'm glad you found my blog! It's great to hear that Danu's abuse didn't effect you seriously.
DeleteAnd yes, I noticed that myself! Looking back, I definitely see what you're saying here. I actually started noticing that once I joined the Web of Narcissism (WoN) community awhile back and saw how there were women at various stages of recovery. Some were fragile, others were strong and recovered and provided a support system for those of us who were not quite at their level of inner peace yet. However, most everyone at DoNM DID seem to be emotionally fragile and vulnerable. Seeing the pattern now of how Danu seems to weed out people who are doing well, it's becoming more and more obvious that this isn't merely a coincidence. Once you're doing better, you get the ban hammer. Sick, really really sick.
A head's up for you all:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.amazon.com/Youre-Not-Crazy-Your-Mother/dp/0232529299
Written by "Danu Morrigan" and will be released on Amazon on 17 July.
Just one more way to "farm" the victims...
Hi Violet, I am glad you mentioned THAT BOOK BEING WRITTEN BY DANU, under her pseudonym. I noticed this as well. Considering all the bannings that have transpired on the DoNM forum, it makes me wonder how much of this book will be her own material, and how much of it might be plagiarized, from banned ex-members of her forum? Another question I have is whether she will be using the stories of ex-members without their permission..? It will be interesting to investigate this further.
DeleteDisgusting. What's sad is people will be buying this book, blinded by the "validation" they think they are receiving (just like each of us did before we saw who Danu really was). I'm more upset over that than the fact that Danu is going to be raking in money like this. The emotional "stealing" she is doing is far more cruel and vicious than the monetary robbing she is doing (though that is not to be discredited, either).
DeleteAnd kalibiza, you bring up a great point. I wonder if she runs the forums just as a place to gather "material" for her to make more money. It's awfully odd how she seems to kick people out once the drama and chaos has settled down in their lives and they've reached a point of stability.
Sugar--I think we need to see what Danu has written in her book, and then we can leave our comments and reviews on her Amazon page about that. Who knows what she has been up? We will soon be able to find out.
ReplyDeleteAnd Sugar... one more thing, is there any way I can have a private conversation with you somehow, through blogger or elsewhere? I am not very techno savvy, so if there is a way to do this, you might have to explain it to me really well, and connect the dots very close together. :)
ReplyDeleteYeah, you have a good point there. God only knows what is in there. I regret having divulged such personal information on that website now knowing what kind of an evil and manipulative woman runs the whole place. But..unfortunately, the past is the past and it doesn't pay to regret. :/
DeleteI'd love to have a conversation with you! Hmm, I don't think there is a way through blogger itself, but gmail is what I used to create this blog and I know it has a plugin you can download in order to have "gmail chat", which is an instant messenger through gmail. I don't know your e-mail, but if you want to send it to me, I have the contact form and I will reply back to you with my e-mail if you want to do it that way!
Hi Sugar
ReplyDeleteIt has been wonderful finding you! I've been banned twice. The first time was when I had only just found out about NM and I was extremely upset by it.
My main problem has been that I had read so much about NPD and dared question Light's knowledge. For example, she said N's did not suffer from depression. I have read in various places that this is, in fact, one of the few "mental issues" that N's have - because they fail to live up to their own self-image and respond so badly to criticism. Anyhow. Light does not like anyone knowing as much, or more than SHE knows about NPD and considers herself quite the authority. So anyone who posts anything which contradicts her views is likely to find themselves banned.
It is a shame as everyone else says that fragile, vulnerable women can be re-victimised. Also that such harsh rules stamp out the spirit of lively discussion.
Sugar - if you need help on continuing to spread the word, my advice if your IP address gets banned is to use some software called HPA (Hide my Ass) which hides your IP address. I am going to check out WoN very soon. xx
Hi Anastasia! Thanks for your comment :)
DeleteAh yes, Light HATES to have her knowledge questioned. In reality, she has absolutely no training whatsoever in psychology or personality disorders. She doesn't know anything more than what you or I could find via a google search. She's just good at snipping bits of info and sewing them together to make them appear as if it's her own.
Another member I know actually had a similar experience with being banned as you. Her username was beccas12 and she has training in psychology. Light stated that if someone physically abuses you, they are not really an N. Becca challenged this and stated her knowledge from her education in psychology that stated otherwise. As a result, she was banned.
The problem is that place is run like a dictatorship. "You must revere me and my point of view is always right" seems to be the unspoken motto. Dare to say otherwise, and you get the boot. Hell, you even get the boot if you don't say anything to contradict them!
Hello Anastasia and Sugar--"LIGHT" (whose real name, as I have learned from Violet's blog, is Michelle Ede). She is a finish carpenter and has no training in the mental health field. Maybe that is why she is often so completely IN THE DARK, when it comes to some of the information she claims to be an expert in.
DeleteThe fact is that NPD is often diagnosed with other mental disorders, including eating disorders, mood disorders, substance abuse and addictive disorders, and other PDs--like paranoid, borderline and histrionic personality disorders. Remember Mommie Dearest, aka Joan Crawford? She's a good example of how many disorders a malignant narcissist can have. And also, she was violently abusive, as so many with NPD can be when crossed. How anyone can dismiss or deny the physical violence that so many children of Ns have suffered at the hands of their crazy NPD parent is beyond ignorance.
Light/Michelle has been wrong on so many points regarding NPD. But being the toxic narcissist that she is, she holds to that arrogant attitude of entitlement, which makes her unable to reflect on her own behavior and to admit when she is wrong. She prefers instead to target and lash out at anyone who questions her, and to ban them from her sight. This is all done without a second thought, without showing any empathy or remorse for those she victimizes with her actions.
What has a front has a back, and the bigger the front the bigger the back. Anyone who chooses the name LIGHT has to have a very dark shadow, and Presto-chango! there it is.
I just came here after getting a PM about this. I was never banned myself, but I drifted away from the forum last winter, shortly after one of my friends on the forum, mumfree, was banned for no apparent reason. I think it's unfortunate to have such a dynamic going on there. While I was active, there were a lot of great people and I got some good support.
ReplyDeleteHey Julie!
DeleteYeah, it appears that the banning is an unpredictable thing. Most of the time, its out of the blue and you don't see it coming. Or if there's a "reason", it's something so trivial and minor, such as questioning something on the forums. God forbid we don't act like mindless drones who can't think for ourselves. That seems to be the mentality there.
I agree, it's so very sad that a place like that has to be this way. I too, have met so many wonderful women there that helped me to cope with my NM. It's a shame that the administration is corrupt and unstable.
Another DONM-bannee here to join the party! I just received your PM over there (I've been lurking over there under a different screen name).
ReplyDeleteLike others here have described, I was banned completely without warning or explanation - heck, I'm still not sure why or for what reason I was banned. I'm not religious. I do vaguely recall once being corrected when I accidentally mentioned religion once in a post, but that was weeks/months before I was banned. I didn't post all that often - certainly not as often as I see some posting there - and hadn't had any run-ins or even communication with Admin, other than that one immediately-corrected slip.
I joined back in Feb/Mar of 2011 under the screenname "kira". I was active for a month or two, faded away, came back for a couple weeks after my father's sudden death in early July, faded away again, then was hanging around again in late August just before what would have been my father's birthday. I was inexplicably banned on my father's birthday, when I logged in hoping to get some support on what was a very emotional day. Great timing! All I got was one of those "not a good fit/terms of use" messages. It definitely threw me for a bit of a loop - as others have said, the feeling of being shunned and having to walk on eggshells was way too reminiscent of the behaviors we'd all grown up with.
Ironically, I had just set up a PayPal subscription (which I promptly cancelled) the day before I was banned, so it wasn't even about money. Who knows???
Hello everyone!
ReplyDeleteA few of my friends (on closer email basis) from the DoNM forum sent me a link to this blog and said that something has been going on with the forum and someone sent out a PM. I was banned last week so I wouldn't know.
It happened to me too and twice. I joined the forum in February of this year and my very first post in "Share your story" was removed entirely but that was just the beginning. I was 'AmieeStar' and was posting frequently and all of a sudden in the midst of going through a really tough time without warning I was banned completely. I was devastated as that was my only form of therapy as I had just found out about NPD and that I had a mother that carried a very bad case of it. I had signed up for Danu's weekly email writings about NPD so since I couldn't find access to write one of the Admins I typed up an email in response to my banning. Of course I heard nothing back from her.
Then I made a new account but stayed in the dark only reading posts and never really posted but only a few times and every time I did they would remove my posts. Basically I went onto chat often (this passed for about 5 months) and suspected several fake users who would talk to me picking for information or just not really being a friend overall and making ridiculous religious and bizarre suggestions.
So then that user name I made 'Golden Rain' was banned one night after I had an online chat with one of the Site Admins who was telling me that I had not done anything wrong but then turns around a few sentences later and says I did do something wrong and that it was in the policy, and it was instantly when I questioned her as to why I was being banned that she pressed the button and I was long gone.
So much nonsense when all I wanted to do was get help and talk to others who have the same issues.
Hi Viajera and Tokeyo--
ReplyDeleteI am sorry that you had the unpleasant experience of being booted from Tracy and Michelle's forum. Such wicked little control freaks they are!
Reading everybody's stories of their bannings from the DoNM forum reminds me of some of the behavior that went on in junior high school cliques, at the hands of the "mean girls." It's really pathetic that a couple of grown women would behave so immaturely, and so unkindly. They obviously have some unrecognized and unresolved NPD issues of their own. Their lack of empathy and inability to reflect on their behavior is especially hideous.
I am glad that the truth is being exposed about their tyrannical rule on that forum. It's validating and enlightening to read about everybody's experiences there, and to know I am in very good company.
I've often thought dolly was a figment of Lights imagination.
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering how many posters are fake? If there are fakes I bet Sandancer is one.
Also this explains where the hell you all went! I wondered what would make someone create such intense (internet) relationships and then drop off the face of the earth never to return.
I've had an icky taste in my mouth after one of my posts was edited. It wasn't anything horrible and the edit had me saying almost the opposite of what I intended.
I also must be psychic, cause when I saw that her book was being published under the name Danu Morrigan I just knew there HAD to be a reason other than not wanting to out her NM. I wondered if there would be a ruckus.
Also is it weird that I am seriously pissed Light lives with her mother? I feel so deceived.
Re: fakes - I was always suspicious about Sandancer, too. Danu didn't seem to like people posting too often or taking the attention/focus away from her. Yet she fawned all over Sandancer, despite her really stealing the spotlight and posting incredibly long messages multiple times a day. When Sandancer faded away after that initial epic thread I thought she'd been banned, but then she showed up again a couple months ago.
DeleteAlso, Danu and Light knew about the PM that Sugar sent. She put up a permanent post about it, and said they knew about it - and it's contents - immediately and could have blocked it, but chose not to. I presume that Sugar did not include Danu and Light on the list. So either a) they read all the PMs that members send to one another (which, talk about controlling!), or b) they have fake accounts to which the PM was sent. They seemed to know about it too soon for someone to have forwarded it to them. Either way it's suspicious.
Though I'm sorry you all have been blocked, too, I'm also a bit relieved to know it was not just me. In my experience in other online communities, you only ban people who have said or done really reprehensible things that clearly violate community norms, and often basic courtesy, and usually only after a warning or two. I just couldn't figure out what I had said or done that was so bad...it all makes a lot more sense now. Thanks for putting this together and notifying us all, Sugar!
Hi Sugar--I want to let you know that I've been having repeated problems posting comments on this blog. I am often not given the options of which profile to choose, or else I get an error message that tells me: Your Open ID credentials could not be validated. It took me several attempts to post earlier.
ReplyDeleteI am wondering if this has been a problem for others as well? And what one can do about it? Any ideas?
I wonder if anyone plans to get a copy of Danu's book? I am eager to know what's written in there, but I don't want to buy it.
ReplyDeleteHi fellow DoNMs
ReplyDeleteI too drifted away from the site due to getting a warning over a post which apparently was "political" and the fact that the post was edited without my consent. I also never managed to convince myself that EFT is anything other than nonsense and it bothered me the way Danu would push it on new members as if it were a cure-all for everything. I also got increasingly concerned about the fact that Light always ripped apart what any therapist said unless it was completely in line with her views. The other thing I found odd was more experienced members who seemed to be moving on in their healing kept disappearing and the forum seems to consist now of nothing but vulnerable new people and the 2 great leaders dispensing their pearls of wisdom from on high. I did post some very personal things on there which in hindsight was a bit rash, so I really hope that they haven't made it into her book. As I haven't been banned yet, maybe I should raise the issue of consent on the DoNM forum?
@Nor Omance Light lives with her mother??! ROFL All that preaching about NC and she hasn't the courage to do it herself??? Freaking hilarious!
Hi sleekrabbit, Yes, it is hilarious that Light (Michelle Ede) still lives with her mother. What's that saying... those who can't DO, teach!
ReplyDeleteI was only on the DoNM forum for about 2 months, but that was long enough to pick up the on the membership being very lopsided in favor of those of with minimal or no recovery, which gave "those in charge" FAR TOO MUCH POWER over their needy and vulnerable members. Anyone who had more knowledge or credentials than Michelle or Tracy quickly disappeared.
According to "Light," most therapists were narcissists, especially those who challenged her authority. This was probably one of her main justifications for all the bannings. Anyone who did not put her on the pedestal was booted for being a narcissist. So how very twisted is that!
Hi, Sugar, thanks for DoNM PM. I emailed you to thank you about a week ago. I'm still a member on DoNM, but there are things that really bother me about the site. I found out about this blog as a result of Sugar sending all the DoNM members PMs. --Which I think is *awesome*, btw! I love that you "infiltrated" the site to get the truth out to people! Like I said, I'm still a member there, but knowing the truth about that site is far more important to me than being a member there.
ReplyDeleteI don't really care for Light. She comes off as a huge bully and a know-it-all to me. I've seen the way she talks to certain members and it makes me angry. It seems like anytime someone disagrees with one of her "theories" she shoots them down. Um, sorry, but you know just as much as we do regarding NPD--we all have the ability to use Google and read books. She's bothered me pretty much since I first interacted with her. She just comes off as a browbeater. I personally saw her *snap* on someone who dared disagree with one of her theories. It really bothered me, so much so that I ended up signing in later on that night with the intention of sticking up for this member (I really DO NOT like bullies and have no problem calling people like that out), only to find this member's post completely gone. I never saw her post again after that and come to find out (via Sugar's PM), she was one of the members who was banned.
I think it's terrible that this supposed haven is banning people for no reason. The DoNM forum is supposed to be safe, a place people can go to for support. I'm so sorry to everyone who's been banned unfairly.
Like I said, I'm still a member there (mostly to give people support as I've come a long way with the whole NM thing). But I wouldn't be surprised to sign in one day only to be told that I've been banned. It seems their banning (and editing of posts!) is very arbitrary. What a shame.
I am a new member of DoNM and my 3rd post deleted for some reason. I really felt invalidated and just today when back and found the PM that had the link to this blog.
ReplyDeleteWhew! This has been an eyeopener.
Hi Jean! I'm really glad the PM got through to you. I'm sorry to hear you felt invalidated..but at least you understand its nothing about you, but rather just sadly how the place works. Thanks for writing!
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHey Sugar,
ReplyDeleteI am also a member of the DoNM forum and I have to say, that place has helped me a great deal in realising the truth about my family, moving away from them and finding peace and happiness in myself, in only a few short months.
I've posted on there a fair bit and received amazing support and advice from all the women on there. I received an email from you, Sugar in my inbox on there which lead me to your blog. I haven't posted in that forum in quite a while just because I've actually been coping pretty well these days and felt posting and reading others' posts might bring me down a bit. I have just wanted to forget all about NM really! I still go on there occasionally and thought I would return at some point to posting, but seeing this blog and the comments from banned users is very disturbing!
I don't believe everything I read, on the contrary in fact, and I don't necessarily believe Danu to be a full blown Narcissist either (then again, how would you know!) but I will admit the EFT and money-grabbing does get to me a bit and hearing about all these bans associated with religious beliefs just doesn't sit well! I thought you would only be banned for abusing others in the forum, or really banging on about your religion and trying to convert others. I have read other posts about sexual abuse and physical violence and noticed those people were not banned for sharing their stories. Or perhaps they have been but we can't see it!
I am a Catholic and I rarely post about that, but I have before and I was never been banned for it. Seems ludicrous. In any case, regardless of Danu (and Light's) reasons for their actions, I will agree it looks like Danu has some issues and should at least provide some kind of reasoning when banning DoNM's. Especially as she advertises her site to be a 'safe haven' for people like us. This blog has really thrown me! I will keep my account active on there for now, due to all the lovely women I have had the good fortune to 'meet' and speak to. But I am interested in this other forum 'WoN', and will probably be checking that out for future use. ;) Thank you all very much for the insight.
Much love,
Lioness
xoxoxox
Thank you so much for this blog!
ReplyDeleteI am a member of DoNM and a post of mine was removed yesterday because it detailed graphic sexual abuse. I don't think it did to be honest, I wouldn't even call it abuse, I just wanted to know if my experience was normal or not. Anyway, it was the first ime I had spoken out about it and to have it removed made me feel embarrassed. I sent a private message to apologise and ask of they could recommend any e-therapy websites as I really need to start talking to someone but I live on a small Spanish island so cannot get therapy here. If anyone knows of a way to email therapists, I would really appreciate the help.
Thank you.
Why are so many comments being deleted from DONM? I don't see a reason. :(
ReplyDeleteHi everyone - count me as someone who also gets a really bad feeling from the DoNM forum admin.
ReplyDeleteThank you Sugar for the PM at DoNM - I hadn't been there in many months after being severely chastised via PM by Danu over a post I made while in the worst mental state of my life. I wasn't banned (oddly, I guess)... I did find myself reverting back to my little girl ways though - I felt horrible, wrong, bad, I apologized to Danu. At that point I realized that I had to stay away - the abuse (yes, I believe abuse is the right word) that Danu heaped on me in my most vulnerable state was a BIG FLASHING warning that that place was not good for me, or likely for anyone as fragile as a daughter of a narc mother.
I am really glad that we have all found each other - thank you and the others for posting about this so that those of us who were left reeling after being banned or shunned by Danu can heal from that and put it behind us as we struggle to regain our sense of self worth.
Danu's book is published. It now has two negative reviews. The other day, Danu started a thread on the DoNM website asking people to down-vote the one negative review that was up.
ReplyDeleteI find this to be so incredibly childish and kind of not ethical. I mean, she should be mature enough to deal with the negative as well as the positive and not go crying to her "followers" to vote down any negative review that may appear. -IMHO, of course.
The name of the book is "You're Not Crazy It's Your Mother" if anyone's interested in checking out the Amazon review and the comments on said review.
Yeah, the friends I managed to get back into touch again from DoNM who were also unfairly banned shared the Amazon page with me the other day..I'm surprised, but I'm also not at the same time. I'm not surprised that she is being so childish and petty because she has done more cruel and heartless things. However, what does surprise me is how careless she's being about her public image, not thinking that some people may find it odd that she's making a thread to encourage people to down-vote other people's honest opinions on her book that happen to be honest. Does she really look at her followers as mindless sheep that will follow no matter what? Because that's how it comes off to me.
DeleteBut what she posted in her "announcement" when I sent out the PMs kind of spoke volumes. She basically said she didn't care either way and had no vested interest in whether people believe the PM and stay or go as a result. Without even realizing it, she made it so clear just how much she doesn't care about her members and only sees them as a means to garner money/attention.
Yeah, I remember her "announcement" (that was locked, btw, so no one could share their thoughts on it) and found it disingenuous.
DeleteI've been thinking about it and I agree with Time to Heal: I'm done with that site. The only real reason I still went there (occasionally) was to give support to the other ladies there who were really struggling. But to go there after thinking about everything and after finding all of this out--I just can't. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I just feel badly for newer members who don't know any better. I'm glad you sent out those PMs, Sugar. You did a lot of good by trying to get the truth out there...
Thank you for the kind words..it really means so much to know the PMs made a difference. I just kept hearing more and more things about Danu's craziness and that day, something clicked in me and just pushed me to finally compose and send out that PM. I had intentions for doing it awhile, but I guess I needed that "trigger" moment to push me into finally doing it.
DeleteI got a couple of rude responses at DoNM which really hurt..people calling me a "troll" or accusing me of "trying to stir drama" and to leave them alone. It hurt so much to get replies like that because my intentions are to protect and warn them. But I suppose when people feel like they've found something to help them after years of abuse, some will cling to it no matter what and feel panicked/threatened if someone comes by trying to open their eyes that what they are relying on is in fact dangerous. Hopefully, I've planted a seed that will grow and they will eventually realize it. Or even if they don't, if they get burned by Danu like we did, it won't come as quite as much of a shock or confusion. But yes, I also feel so bad for the newer members who don't know and still refuse to believe even with all the warning signs..
But thank goodness the vast majority of the replies I've gotten were all positive and understanding. It was incredibly encouraging to see that.
I've just posted a few threads over at DONM hoping to alert some more members that they may end up abused there. I'm sure they will be deleted quickly and that I will be banned officially (why I wasn't I do not know, because Danu sure was peeved at me and she deleted my whole thread even though I was receiving MUCH needed support)
ReplyDeleteanyway.. thanks again for the blog!
Hi, Sherri! Wonderful to hear you made topics to spread the truth. Even if they are deleted, they can't instantaneously do it. Someone will manage to see it before they get to it and if you've warned even just one person, I see that as something extremely important and precious.
DeleteWere you one of the people I PMed? Because I remember a Sherri on DoNM and I feel like I messaged you, and definitely remember seeing you there when I posted.
And you are welcome!
The other day I saw the process of someone getting banned. Danu posted that she didn't want the negative review for her book on Amazon to be the only one, and asked that the forum members vote it as "unhelpful". What I found interesting about the request, was that she made it clear it was not something she wanted to do herself. She was sending out the flying monkeys. A member replied, that not only was she uncomfortable with that, but was frankly shocked.
ReplyDeleteLight then immediately appeared and responded that basically, if she was uncomfortable, she could leave. Then issued general directions on how others should respond to controversial topics or subjects you disagree with, by keeping quiet and ignoring them. Most people leaped to Danu's defense, but when one lady decided to discuss the shocked reaction, in an open way, Danu locked the thread down. I found out the dissenting member was banned, due to "antagonism", because she discusses it on Amazon.
I have made the decision never to return to DoNM, as after I make this post I know I would not be welcome. What I believed I witnessed was abusive and I will not enable it. I want the lady who suffered this to know, that it was seen and that I support her for standing up for what is right, by exposing what happened, and following her example.
Hi, Time to Heal, thanks for taking the time to write here! I honestly can't believe the insanity that is going on over at DoNM. I thought it was messed up back when I was there, but from the looks of it, Danu is getting sloppy and doesn't seem to care if people see the madness publicly. Maybe she's getting a bit too comfortable with all the people she think she's got bamboozled and trapped in her web of lies.
DeleteJooly, the woman who was banned that you are referring to, contacted me with her response and wanted me to post it here for her (since the comments were giving her difficulty for some reason). Here it is:
"Time to Heal,
This is Jooly here, it was me!
I can't tell you how good it felt to see your comments on here! I was scrolling down reading all the comments, intending to add some of my own, then I read yours!
Your supportive words are very reassuring to me - Thankyou.
You know, when I posted my feelings in Danu's thread "I request your help", I just knew that It would not go down well, but I did it anyway. When I first joined the forum, I was pretty desperate for some support and validation. I thought I had found the Oasis in the desert. At first I just read and read, unable to pluck up the courage to post. When I finally started to post, I found that I couldn't stop and was so totally addicted with the site for several weeks. I posted lots of personal stuff, like others, I thought it was my 'safe haven'. I even posted, word for word, a letter that I sent my mother, and the long reply that she sent me back. Trust me, it's not something that I would normally do! I laid myself open. I had total faith and trust in the forum at this point. I received many supportive validating replies from some lovely ladies who, to my surprise, were in exactly the same place as me. It was a revelation to me, after years of feeling 'alone'. I started to reply to lots of other threads, hoping to contribute a little too. It was so nice to see familiar names pop up on the threads, and we would acknowledge each other, make comments about each other's journey and wish each other well. You see I have always been one to shy away from close friendships. For one, there was never any room for anyone else in my life but my mother and also it was too risky for me, they might be like her too!!!
So for me, it was the closest thing to friendship that I had come for a very long while! Sad, I know.
[second part of the reply continued]
DeleteWell, I soon noticed that Danu and her sidekick Light would chip in on most threads. I noticed that posters would generally act as if royalty had decided to honour us with their presence (yes, I was probably guilty of this too. Oh goodness, Danu and Light have commented on MY thread!!)
In time I grew increasingly wary of Danu and Light's postings. At times they were very abrupt, arrogant, abrasive, unempathetic, cold, anxious making, manipulative, sarcastic, mocking, phony and sometimes downright insulting!!
Hmmm.... all of the above adjectives also describe my mother perfectly!!
One time Danu described me as acting like my mother's 'chew toy'. I felt really upset by this comment.
When I got the PM from Sugar (Charlene?) it was like the alarm bells that had been going off in my head were not actually a figment of my imagination after all!!
I carried on posting, still wanting the support of the other ladies. But chose to ignore the comments of Danu and Light. On the threads where Danu had chipped in with her insensitivity, I would follow up with my own comments to hopefully support a fellow sister who had received uncalled for harsh comments.
By the time Danu put up her thread asking for help to 'vote down' the negative book review and comments, I had no more illusions about the site and her 'God complex'
Sorry this is getting a bit long!!
I actually think now that getting banned from the DONM site is a very healthy thing! If you are banned (or walk away) then it means that you are no longer prepared to take this crap from toxic people!
I think that there are a lot of people who are on there who are wary of Danu but do not want to lose their posting privileges. I received some pm's just before I was banned, telling me so. This is so understandable, they don't want to lose the support they have found in the other members.
I did manage to get back in for a very short while, using a different email address, to pm some of the ladies who's support I was grateful for, to say thanks and goodbye. I was soon banned again. I suppose that it looked suspicious, a brand new member going straight on and sending pm's to other members. Pretty obvious that they must have read them!?!
Bless you Time to Heal and Sugar and any other liberated former DONM'ers!! xxx"
Thanks Sugar for posting my post for me. I have now opened a Gmail account and hopefully this will work, fingers crossed!
DeleteJooly xx
Hey Jooly, great to see you're having more luck with the Gmail account! From my own experience and what others have said, using Gmail to post comments seems to work successfully more consistently. :)
DeleteHas anyone here read Danu's book yet? I am very curious to know if she used stories from banned members of her forum, without their permission.
ReplyDeleteI haven't read it (in all honesty, I'm not interested at all in what she has to say, even for purposes of just seeing how twisted/warped/plagiarized this book is..maybe if I could get my hands on a free copy, I might want to give it a look but even then I am not sure I'd want to even give Danu the time/thought in that way). But I did get wind of the fact that negative reviews have been left on Amazon for her book and Danu was promoting for people on her forums to go and "down vote" the negative reviews. Pretty sick, huh?
DeleteI would read it if I didn't have to pay for it. And I would gladly write a negative review and a warning about her forum. Too bad the book is not going to be at the local public library.
DeleteI do hope someone who has been banned reads it and reports back to us here.
The book is now available on UK Amazon. It's fairing better in the reviews there with 3 good reviews and only 1 negative one. I think I recognise a couple of the names of the good ones off the site, probably forum newbies!! The negative one is from someone who saw Danu's interview in the Guardian and decided to buy the book, she says the book led her to have a read of the forum but I get the impression that she wasn't a poster and it is a very genuine unbiased review.
ReplyDeleteI have left some comments about the forum in reply to the above ladie's review but I would love to leave a review my self! Thing is, I have not read the book, so I don't want to be accused of just going on to make trouble! I don't want to line her pocket though either! Thing is, people will read the reviews but probably not the comments on the reviews. It is a good place to warn others though. There will be lots of women who saw the piece about the book in the paper, then come to the forum from the book. It's very interesting as well that Danu said on her thread that she knew that the first negative reviewer had not read her book because of something they did not mention? What's all that about? It's tempting to read it. Then I could leave a review to warn all potential fodder for her!
"Thing is, people will read the reviews but probably not the comments on the reviews."
DeleteI don't think that's necessarily true, Jooly. If I'm interested in a book, I always read the reviews AND the comments to get as much info as I can about it. I'm sure there are a lot of others out there who do the same!
Thanks for sending the message to all members of DoNM! I have been on many user forums and had never been banned until I became a member of DoNM.
ReplyDeleteI always read rules of forums and try not to step on anyone's toes. I was shocked that I was banned within the first couple of weeks that I was a member! And I couldn't figure out why. I figured it had to be a mistake so I wrote a polite email asking why and never got a response.
I was so upset. I felt exactly like you said: I'd been kicked around and abused all my life and then I was getting kicked again.
I created another username and vowed to just lurk so that I wouldn't accidentally be offensive at all. I hate lurking. I like to contribute and help people. I feel like lurking is only helping yourself and not contributing back to people who also need help, but I decided to just do that.
I looked at my few posts from my previous username. I discovered that only one had been deleted. That must have been the "offensive" one. It had not been against any rules that were stated. I had only provided a link to a blog by a woman who had a narcissistic father and said that it had helped me to read her story.
I think that Danu doesn't want people who help others because she can't make money without selling instructions for tapping. She doesn't want people to learn or grow or help each other. She just wants to help people and make money. And I was providing a link where people could help themselves without giving her money.
Ironically, I buy a lot from Amazon and had planned to use her link to help her make money whenever I shopped on Amazon, but I was banned so quickly that I never did that. Had I not been banned, she would have made more money.
Before I was banned, I had looked through all of the registered users and wondered why there were so many that never posted. Because they've all been banned.
I'm so glad that you figured out how to send a message to all registered users about this! You can tell that I don't check my DoNM account often since I just got your message.
Sugar--I am so glad you sent that PM to the ladies on the DONM forum. Brilliant idea! And it sounds like it is getting through. Thank you again for your efforts with that. <3
ReplyDeleteThink I've caught out Danu telling porkie pies. She announced on her forum that she was going to be on a radio talkshow in Ireland the next morning, she gave a link to the website. I had a look at the website and saw that there was an email address for the person who she said was to be interviewing her. I decided to email with some suggestions for some questions i.e. if she had anything to say to all the banned members of her support forum?
ReplyDeleteI was quite surprised when someone from the radio station emailed back thanking me for contacting them and asking me where I heard that she would be on the show?
I told them that she had announced it on her forum. The person told me that they had requested an interview, but it was not going ahead. On the forum, after lots of member's had gone on to wish Danu good luck, she posted that the Radio station had postponed the interview. Just thought it all seemed a bit strange?
I was banned from DoNM quite a while ago, basically because I was horrified that other women were being banned at the most inappropriate times and so I protested. As for Danu's book, I thought that just one of us could purchase a second hand copy, and I dont mind paying the postage to send it on to another one of you, we can just keep passing it on to anyone who wants to read it. I am quite interested to see what she has written, as I have learned today that she did most likely NOT have an abused upbringing, so that I can also leave a genuine review on Amazon.Also, I recall one of the forum members, quite soon after the forum opened in April 2009, suggesting we write a book between us. I also vividly recall that Danu was never keen on the idea for reasons such as "not much is known about it, we couldnt get a publisher" in fact, im sure that she actually said she asked her publisher, who said this to her. I have, since seeing this book of hers, trawled through posts looking for this thread, which must have been deleted. Now, you cannot simply write a book overnight, so I would think that Danu, who is not an abused child of a narcissist, has been collecting information for this book ever since. I also believe this is why certain women were banned, for example, professional psychologists who questioned their/her logic. She has quite deviously and cleverly been using vulnerable women's experiences for her own selfish gains, whilst ensuring that the women themselves were kept out of the picture! I have also seen today that Light also has a book about NPD published! I think it is truly wicked how they are treating people. Also, she is STILL using a quote I wrote 3 years ago as one of her testimonials for extorting money!! I was xKezx which is highly insulting considering that I was banned after telling her that she was making money out of vulnerable women! This is a really fab blog by the way Sugar xx
ReplyDelete:(
ReplyDeleteI don't even know what to say. I remember the thread where Jooly was banned, but I didn't know she was banned because of it. She posted that she felt like she was being told what to think, then someone came back and posted that she was not being told what to think. Now she is banned, but you wouldn't know it. I am so angry. I liked her posts.
So many threads keep getting deleted for no obvious reason. >:(.
I don't know what to do. I like the other women on the forum. I like being supported and supporting others. I don't want to support Danu's site anymore, but I don't know any other support groups.
Thank you for the PM.
Hi Sirenebo
DeleteI'm glad someone liked my posts! I was angry too!
I know what you mean, I miss the support of the other women. Maybe we should all start a new forum!!!
I found an interesting article on skepdic.com about EFT. Here's the link, if anyone's curious: http://www.skepdic.com/eft.html
ReplyDelete"I recall one of the forum members, quite soon after the forum opened in April 2009, suggesting we write a book between us."
ReplyDeleteSaffySurvivor and Everyone else--
I have been suspecting that Tracy Culleton (aka Danu) is looking forward to cashing in on the stories the many DONMs have posted on her abusive forum. It all seems to be pointing in that direction.
Maybe WE, the banned members, should put together our own book. We could call it: SURVIVING THE DONM FORUM (An Abusive Internet Forum Managed By 2 Women with No Qualifications and a Penchant For Power tripping."
Just thinking out loud.... but really, it might just be a interesting and educational project.
What do you all think about this?
Hey ladies,
ReplyDeleteHas everyone read the 5-star review of Danu's book by a Julia McMasters? This person's only other review is a 5-star one for Light's book.
Bit suspicious do you think?
and reportable too, an author reviewing her own book on Amazon.
OMG! "Best Book Available on Dealing With a Narcissistic Mother", "Ms. Morrigan has given generously of her time and her experience by making available this professionally-written guide", "You're Not Crazy - It's Your Mother is a tremendous resource" and more!
ReplyDeleteA narcissistic review of a book on narcissistic mothers? The whole review sounds like a prepared statement. It reads more like a term paper than a personal review. Somehow, I doubt it's a real review. "Julia McMasters" review reads exactly the same as her review for Narcissists, just cut and paste with some things removed. Hmmm...
Hmmmm indeed!!
ReplyDeleteI was reading the reviews of Light's book on Amazon - 75 things Narcissists don't want you to know by Drew Keys. Danu gives a 5-star review for this under the name of Danu Morrigan, where she goes on about the forum which she 'owns'. I found it interesting that the comments on the reviews suggest that Light/Danu is the same person. Does anyone know if this is true?
P.S If any of you ladies are leaving comments on these reviews, remember that the books are on Amazon.co.uk too. The books are fairing better on the uk one, not so many comments either.
Hi Jooly--
ReplyDeleteDanu Morrigan is really Tracy Culleton, an author of crappy sounding novels and EFT "expert." http://www.tracyculleton.com/
Light is Michelle Ede, who is a finish carpenter living in Amesbury MA. Lots of info here: http://narcissistschild.blogspot.com/p/beware-these-sites-2.html
As you all know, neither one has any sort of mental health credentials. I wonder who is being suckered into buying these books?
Well I've just got banned again for the 3rd and FINAL time. Think it will be healthy for me to step away now and concentrate on my recovery!!
ReplyDeleteThought I would start a warning thread, and thought I would be promptly banned, but the mods must have been taking a long coffee break and I managed to get about 80 views and quite a few replies. Very surprised by this!
Even managed to get the name of this blog on, well another lady helped me put the link on, how good was that?
Thankyou if you are here, I was Libertina by the way.
I think, from some of the replies, that some think we are a group of spiteful women with an axe to grind. I explained that, yes, we were angry and upset to be unfairly banned from somewhere that we thought was safe and supportive. What a trigger for a vulnerable DONM. Don't think that last post got on there though.
Just want to say thanks Sugar for sending those pm's. At a time when I was starting to feel uncomfortable with the forum and feel a little crazy, you gave me my wake-up call. I just wanted to do the same for others. If I even helped one lady like you helped me then I'm very glad.
But I think that it's time that I moved on from this, and concentrate on my therapy. I won't be going on the site again. Run out of email addresses anyway. Someone even called me a troll!
Oh well, no one can hurt me as much as my mother did.
Thanks again Sugar, I'm staying subscribed to your blog.
I just hope that more ladies find there way here and that we can spread the word. I think it is good to feel angry at Danu and Light, just like I have managed to feel angry with my mother!
I do fear that they have got all mushed up together in one big narcissistic ball so maybe it is time to go NC with all three!!!
Good luck everyone on your journey.
Jooly/Jimbob/Libertina xxx
That's great to hear, Jooly! I'm always so happy when I see DoNMs reaching out to help their sisters..even if those women don't want to see the truth yet. I really believe you've made a difference, Jooly. I've lost count of the number of women who have contacted me to thank me for sending them the PM. It far outweighed the number of women who replied antagonistically. A lot of women didn't reply directly to the PMs (maybe they were scared that Danu would intercept the PMs? Wouldn't be surprised if Danu did), but rather came to my blog to contact me.
DeleteAnd yes, I was also called a "troll" my someone (wonder if it's the same member!) I was also accused of "drama baiting". It hurt to read because I sent out the PMs to warn and protect people from harm. But I understand where it's coming from - these ladies feel like the place they believe to be a safe haven of understanding is being threatened. They're scared of losing that security, so it's a defensive reaction to lash out at the person trying to shed light on the fact that this place isn't any good.
It really isn't even about anger anymore towards Danu, but it's more like it changed into pure disgust with her corruption and a want to save people from the same abuse we experienced there.
Odd that they left the thread open. I guess they want to make it seem like they're not immediately "covering things up" - which are valid accusations I and others have made in their blog entries. Or who knows, maybe they get something out of watching the drama unfold. Aren't a lot of Ns like that to begin with? They seem to like to make people wait and wonder. How many cases now have we heard from banned DoNMs sending a question about a deleted or edited post, no response, then banned without word after time has passed? It seems like a sick pattern of abuse; like a spider waiting it out in its web for its pray to get tangled up and letting it suffer before devouring it. When I sent out the PMs, I wasn't banned immediately, either.
And you're welcome, Jooly!
Well done Sugar :) Mercifully I have never been a member of that forum, but I was a member of a writing forum where myself and my friend received similar treatment, and I know how that felt. To be made to feel like a child all over again, with complete loss of power, by these women is appalling and my heart goes out to you all. it's such a shame you can't stop people joining the site.
ReplyDeleteI belong to an excellent support group on Facebook, and it was one of the admins who gave us the link here. Perhaps some of you would like to join us? The group is private so posts are seen only by group members. Not quite a forum, but the next best thing.
Take care,
Susie.
Hi Susie--
ReplyDeleteCan you provide the link, or name, of the Facebook support group? Thanks.
I would like to know, too, please. :)
DeleteI recently joined. I have to admit that I was addicted and felt validated. I also have felt 3 things already from being there: rejection, invalidation, and somehow that the admins are cold and harsh.
ReplyDeleteThe EFT stuff struck me as a strange scheme. Also, I am very uncomfortable with the fact that you can't edit your post after a certain time or delete your posts. If you are posting stuff that is so private shouldn't you be able to delete it if you have second thoughts? I noticed it is mentioned, too, that forums are public and anything you post you should feel comfortable saying on a public forum, but you can't edit or delete. Interesting.
I desperately want to make friends with others as I have trouble making friends in general but now I just feel taken advantage of and rejected after only a few weeks. I am sad to read this blog and realize that I didn't find the safe haven I was hoping for after all, but I am grateful to the women who have put this information out there. Thank you for the blog.
Danu has been promoting her latest project a support group for healing with EFT which she charges for. She was where she learnt EFT what her qualifications are and what professional bodies she is a member of. Her reply was vague and she's not a member of eny EFT professional organization
ReplyDeleteNow I wonder what Danu is hiding, after all if she had done a course at a reputable centre fthat teaches EFT one would think she would be happy to help those interested and tell them about, after all isnt that want the DONM web page is all about sharing experiences and information.
I can only hazard a guess at why she won't share this information either she doesn't have the qualifications or she doesn't want other people to train in EFT.
Any good practitioner will belong to professional organization with which they practice. I can only conclude that what she is doing is possibly dodgy and all she's ingested in is making money out of vulnerable women who have made it to her website.
I feel the Danu is as N as some of our mothers from her reply or banishment of members who ask her questions she doesn't like. She comes across as one cold and hard woman with very little empathy.
This is exactly it. I have experience with "alternative healing" methods like reiki and EFT. None of them work. They are all the same basic theory, just with a different spin.
DeleteI have enough "behind the scenes" experience to know that all of the "practitioners" know exactly what they are doing. They are not interested in truly helping you heel. In fact, they want you to be dependent on their "healing" so you will keep spending money on them.
If you are at all curious, please do NOT try EFT. Whatever benefit you may get by consciously identifying your feelings and releasing them will be undone by continuing to support these manipulative people. If you are just dying to know the "secret", you can find free EFT instructions all over the internet.
I speak from experience when I urge you not to try, though. Even if you follow the free instructions, you are not truly freeing yourself. You are still dependent on the method. It feels good at first, but it is all to easy to use it as a crutch. Then, you will feel anxious if you have a wave of bad feelings and aren't in a position to "tap" (or whatever the terminology of your chosen method is).
Ladies, you don't need any of these gimmicks. You don't need "energy healing", "revolutionary" therapy, protective amulets or anything else anyone is trying to sell you. You are much stronger than you know. Once you realize this and tap into your own power, you will be unstoppable. It's not easy, and it takes a lot of time, but it's the only way. There are no instant cures.
Cut out all the toxic people in your life and work on living authentically. Without all the negativity, you will begin to see that you are a likeable person. Be gentle with yourself as you sort out your feelings and learn to trust your own intuition.
The reason none of these "cures" work is because the premise is flawed. You are not broken and don't need to be fixed. You are powerful, and this is what all the selfish, manipulative people in our lives are afraid of. They are afraid that we will discover just how strong and powerful we really are and break the cycle. You can do it. Stay strong and don't support any of these people or their practices.
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DeleteI have decided to remove several of my comments on blogs about this situation. Only because knowing what is going on at that forum is very sad and it triggers my own NM issues. Others have done very well documenting what went on.
DeleteThere is an entry on Warrior Forum where she lays out her business plan to a target market. Women who have NM issues.
http://www.warriorforum.com/copywriting-forum/265453-sales-page-review.html
I think it is a terrible paradigm. Decide for yourself how you feel about it.
I've seen that forum post before. It made my blood boil then, and it makes me angry beyond words now! This was a cold and calculated scheme, and there's no getting around that.
DeleteI remember how excited I would get when Danu replied to a post I made and how inadequate I would feel when she would come along with what seemed to be the perfect response to a thread I replied to. I know it's not a competition, but whenever I poured my heart out and tried to sympathize and relate the best I could, only to have my words completely overlooked, I couldn't help but wonder why I couldn't connect with others just like me. In a subtle way, my voice wasn't being heard yet again, this time in what was supposed to be my safe place.
I know I can't be the only one. Then, I found out it was only an illusion. All she did was take the wise words of others and paste them into her forum. I am angry on behalf of all the other women who take comfort and slowly grow to depend on this facade. Danu knows exactly what she's doing, but most of the members do not.
I know her site made us feel much better at first, but it's the principle of the matter. I posted a lot of very personal things I now wish I could delete, and I can only imagine how some of the members with extremely detailed and private details of their life must feel.
I wonder how much of our stories ended up in Danu's marketing materials. Any amount is too much, and everyone should have the right to decide how much of their life they want on display at any time. I've decided to stop posting entirely since the release of the "survival kit". It pains me to know that many others don't know what I know and continue to post on the forum. I feel uneasy and wonder if they are truly giving informed consent?
Thank you for replying to my comments. Even though you removed your comments before I had the chance to read them, it's nice to know that someone read them, and I hope they helped, even if only a little.
If you removed your comments because you don't want your name attached to them or you decided against posting after all, I respect that and won't ask what they were. But, I did notice you said you were worried about being redundant. Please don't be. It's always nice to be validated and know that others feel the same as me. :)
Iahve been banned from the DONM website. It happened today, no reason given er maybe it was because light left the moderators private forum open and I took a look around. What an eye opener that was, which I could have copied a lot of the stuff I read. One thing Danu and Light are mean and nasty they have their own little N group with 2 other moderators, what they say about forum members between themselves is unbelievable, they judge and belittle people, call them trouble makers (then ban them) and other names like drama queens, histrionic, simple, and naive. They even question members credibility on the user names they choose. Light made a comment saying she's overweight and moody so the name light doesn't fit her, when they were commenting on someones name. Their were even dialogues of peoples conversations in the chat room. These were members who they were keeping an eye on, intact they have threads on almost every member and once you've been singled out, it's only a matter of time before you are banned. This is one dodgy and dangerous forum that needs to be closed down for good. I hope no other forum members saw what I saw today, because for some of them the consequences of reading what they read could be tragic. If only I could find a way back into the moderators forum, I'd be down loading it and exposing Danu and Light for the dangerous crazy women they are.
ReplyDeleteThe mask comes off. Interesting.
DeleteHi, I'm Kate, one of the original moderators on Tracy's forum and one of the first ones to get banned. You've perfectly described the mean spirited,immature,controlling atmosphere, the gossiping, and keeping dossiers on the members...that's what goes on behind the scenes. Grown up mean girls who think they are healers/saviors and they're really five star abusers.This is what the forum has been like from the beginning. In retrospect I consider it a high compliment that I got banned, but I sure wish there was a way to expose Tracy and Michelle's little empire.I don't see how either one of them can look at themselves in the mirror...oh wait, I do. They lack empathy and don't have a conscience. They have both been confronted with their behavior numerous times by many people, but have never acknowledged any wrongdoing. The other person is then labeled as defective in some way and is treated as an enemy. I look at my time knowing Tracy on Dr. McBride's forum and her own as a lesson that had good results in my life...but was painful when I went through it. Blessings and healing to the daughters posting here.
DeleteI really learned alot from DoNM... however I slowly started to feel uneasy as I saw the same narcissistic traits we were all describing cropping up in the site owner and moderator. Then when she was pressuring everyone to belong via buying her therapeutic stuff, I was outta there. I kept feeling it was a predatory environment, on fragile women. I thought "what better prey for a narcissist than women who are used to it?"
ReplyDeleteIf anyone doubts this is a money making scheme, just check out the front page. Danu is now selling a "Narcissistic Parent Survival Kit" which includes her book, Light's book, her guide to "healing and thriving", a PDF format of her website, a PDF of Light's website and one of her blog (why on earth would anyone pay for what they can read online for free?), 8 EFT DVDs and five "reports".
ReplyDeleteShe claims her guide is "Normally this is just available if you sign up for my newsletter, and even then it would take you nearly six months to access all this information" so she's really doing you a favour by making you pay for it. Also "The value is $197.89 but get it here now for only $19.99".
If you are still on the forum, there is an announcement saying " Danu and I are beyond delighted to announce the release of The Narcissistic Parent Survival Kit". I'll bet they are! >:(
I am just stunned. I admit, I wasn't sure what to think about the initial PM, but if anyone needs any proof, here it is.
It goes without saying you don't need this kit. I learned everything I know and got where I am for free. There is a wealth of free information online written by people who truly want to help others heal. Most of the excellent books can be borrowed for free from the library or are available on Amazon for less than $19.99. I firmly believe that the more someone promotes themselves and the greater the lengths they need to go to promote something, the less you need it. If something were truly that amazing, people would already be talking about it.
How deluded to you have to be to say your work (mostly borrowed from others) is worth $197 when people who actually do help don't charge nearly that much if at all?
I don't even know what to say anymore. I am just so angry!
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DeleteHi Sugar and everyone. I too am a daughter of an N mother, I too am the victim of Danu and Light's abuse on their forum. First of all, EFT, that method of healing they promote actually can be beneficial and I've used it to help me quit smoking, deal with panic and anxiety, etc.. However, Danu and Light are opportunists who are not qualified to provide training or anything else. They are typical ' corporate' sociopaths. They're like the drug companies who promote drugs that keep people sick. Healthy people threaten their viability since healthy people don't need their drug.
ReplyDeleteHere's what I have observed on that forum which is quite typical of most narcissists: If anyone comes onto the forum with real sincere positive healing messages and insight or mentions anything spiritual or religious, they feel threatened. Of course they would feel threatened because they fear being exposed by someone who is wise and enlightened. When N's feel threatened, they sever their relationships immediately and drop the person like a hot potato. It's all or nothing with them...there's no mature discussion, no logic. It's either all about playing their game ( misery loves company) or you aren't welcome.
In my case, they had recommended a book called, ' Letter to Earth' by Elia Wise and I purchased the book and read it. In the book, there are mentions of all sorts of spiritual things, the occult, religions, etc... So, when they banned me from the forum for mentioning that I felt there was some spiritual significance in one of my experiences that day relating to rescuing a dove, they accused me of promoting religion. When I mentioned that THEY had recommended a book that was mostly about spirituality and religion, they banned me. I asked Danu, ' So, I can't even discuss the book you recommended?" They can't handle anyone who reasons. Neither can any N. N's hate reasonable, logical people and they hate anyone who is truly seeking happiness. Happiness and healing scare them because they know that it only comes to those who have achieved independence, a clear definition of good vs evil, courage to set and respect boundaries and discern between what is healthy for us and what is not.
Another thing I know about them- they used to be on another forum where they constantly whined about the same misery over and over again and created a lot of tension and fighting between members. They are misery magnets who don't like anyone who attempts to leave their sh**-pit. They believe that everyone is a either a psychopath or a narcissist.
Someone asked me once how I can tell that I'm dealing with a narcissist and I responded with, ' I become very uncomfortable, somewhat anxious. I feel as though I can't express myself naturally and that I'm at a loss for words. I feel like something is draining me and causing me to become someone else". That is how I often felt on that forum and I ignored the red flags. Ladies, if there's any one piece of advice that I could offer anyone it's that we must must must TRUST our intuitive feelings ALWAYS. I know that it's in our nature to doubt ourselves but I also believe that God or mother nature or other Divine power has blessed us with immense intuition and we've got to honor that gift because it will always protect us and honor our safety and well-being.
Keep a green tree in your heart and the singing bird will come.
Liz
I had some experience with the site you speak of. All I can say is that you are so right to warn people to stay away from there. I am not sure how blogging works and I ran across this while doing what I do so often. Reading up on Narcs. It is part of my healing to educate myself as much as possible. I had gone NC at the time and lost all my family and support system due to NM's smear campaign and I ended up sick and homeless and abused by that site. They attract the most vulnerable and isolated people and prey on them. Some are weeded out, like us, because we are strong and they see their tactics will not work. We are too smart. Still, I am stronger now, but that site nearly helped end me. Stay away. Thank all of you who are here sharing--I feel I have stumbled across a real place of healing at long last.
DeleteWow Liz, I keep rereading your last paragragh. That's so true!
ReplyDeleteI've just discovered an alternative to the DONM forum - Dr Karyl McBride's facebook page and sign up to her 'Giraffe club' members page. She does a 'facebook party' there every Monday. No doubt there may be some N's there, but lots of lovely supportive women. Most importantly run by the lovely Dr Karyl McBride, author of "Will I ever be good enough? Healing the daughters of Narcissistic mothers".
Not that I know Karyl personally, but I have read her book about 4 x times and always come back to it in times of need! In fact I have just signed up to do her onlines workshops as I have 'given up' on therapists. It's funny, I've seen 3 x different therapists and with each one I experienced that feeling which Liz mentions above. It's a horrible feeling!! Especially when you have put your trust in someone. Not sure now if I'm talking about the therapists or my mother!
I'm glad ladies are still finding their way here from the forum. I have not seen Sugar on here for a while - hope she is doing ok?!
Might see you over at Karyl's!
Julie xx
Jooly,
ReplyDeleteNice to meet you ;D
I also found Karyl's book to be of great value.
Many therapists are N's and it's good that you recognize the discomfort that you felt around them. I had an N therapist who literally wrecked my life by breaking up my marriage and more.
By chance, a few years ago, I found a therapist fresh out of college who was the most incredible, insightful and dynamic therapist I've ever met. She was more than just a listening ear. She was not only intelligent but also practical in helping me to make decisions. I have a horrible problem with making decisions because I have an identity crisis. What I mean is that I don't trust my own good judgment with things that relate to myself. I am great at preaching good advice to others but I'm my own worst enemy when it comes to me. Frustrating as heck!
Some of the other symptoms I've experienced around an N:
I begin yawning ( I think they change the barometric pressure with their intensity..hahahah) uncontrollably due to stress
Their rhetoric, facial expressions, tone of voice can be so dramatic at times that I am unable to respond to them because I'm constantly questioning their sincerity and sanity since they seem so ridiculously over the top. It's as if I'm waiting for them to exclaim, ' I'm just joking' but, they never do. I feel a need to refrain from responding. I believe this is because subconsciously, I know I am being manipulated and I withold in order to prevent giving them the satisfaction. For example: My mother was a histrionic and hypochondriac and every day she was dying of some new disease. She would go to the doctor, etc... Most daughters would respond with concern and love but not me. Both my brother and I would just get really quiet. Of course mother would accuse us of not caring about her but, still we could not respond. We knew we were being sucked into her game and it didn't feel 'natural' to respond.
I begin to notice that even just thought of having to be near or with an N will result in some sort of anxiety and thoughts of how to avoid them. Any thoughts of them will result in negative self talk or negative thoughts, period. I may even feel suddenly exhausted and feel the need to nap. I believe this is symptomatic of them stealing my life force and my spirit shutting down in response.
I always feel as though I'm being scrutinized by them down to my bare skin. I always dressed very ' down' around my mother or other N's in order to avoid making them feel threatened/jealous. This is also an example of how we become something we are not for their benefit. Take notice of your thoughts and behaviors! If you find yourself making choices that are not of your usual approval or liking, ask yourself why you're doing so and be honest!
Liz
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteSorry for removing my comments. I realized they are just very redundant to what has already been posted here. I felt they weren't really value added. But it's interesting to see how very similar everyone's complaints are. You can't fabricate that. It's very consistent. That says something about this entire situation.
ReplyDeleteHi Lace Heart, I read all your comments. I stay subscribed to this blog because I am always interested to read what is happening on that forum! Although I've been away from it (banned) a while now, that woman still makes me feel angry! I do think that your comments added value! Please leave that link on for the 'Warrior Forum'. That is very enlightening to read! Have not seen that one before. She sure did find a very lucrative market didn't she? Glad I'm not part of it now. Congratulations on getting banned. That means that you were not prepared to pussyfoot and walk on eggshells around yet another narcissistic woman! Bless you, and keep on healing xx
ReplyDeleteHi Jooly. Here is the link to Morrigan on the Warrior Forum. She is pitching her idea for a forum to facilitate books about daughters of narcissistic mothers. It's a business model so she can sell stuff on her website. Kind of cuts to the chase about what she wants.
Deletehttp://www.warriorforum.com/copywriting-forum/265453-sales-page-review.html
I have something new to add to this conversation. I never got banned from the forum and had no idea about the mean spirited gossip but I did become annoyed at all the sales pitches, particularly when they were posed to my every forum post. Now that I have ventured onto the forum you mentioned, I can see how limiting the DONM site was in terms of treatment: by selling tapping in isolation, they shelter members from information that is authentically helpful. Take the WoN site's description of Axis 1 and 2 disorders for example--real information that can help us to understand things and cope. Therapy is recommended, advice about medication is given and all kinds of information is there to tell us how to approach healing in a helpful way. By turning the DONM site into a sales pitch, Danu has kept all the most important information away from her readers. I actually found this page on my way to the DONM site, so I can inform you that, at least today, the entire forum is shut down for 'technical' reasons. I wonder what that's about...
ReplyDeleteOne more thing: You wrote this post three years ago and it's still helping people. I always thought it'd be silly for a person like me to start a blog but you've inspired me.
Fishtank. Check out this page. I heard this is her asking advice on how to set up the business of her websites so she can sell stuff on the site and forum. It's all about a business plan.
DeletePlus, she has a 52% bounce rate on her website. That means 52% of the people who go there get out immediately after they see all the advertising for her products. The other people only look at a few pages and stay about 3 minutes. I found that on Alexa. Her website looks like a total Internet marketing scheme except that it has a good hook with the narcissistic mother angle. Exactly what she was looking for.
http://www.warriorforum.com/copywriting-forum/265453-sales-page-review.html
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteAfter my above entry I stumbled across a website called "Light's Blog".
ReplyDeletehttp://lightshouse.org/lights-blog/#axzz2lxGA9km0
I found a very good article about narcissistic families. Then I scrolled down the page and was hit with a lot of ads that looked similar to the ones on Danu's site. I wanted to know who Light is. The Welcome page states she works with Danu. No wonder the format was so familiar.
I have to admit some of the articles are good. So I clicked on the home page and found it is a marketing page for products by Light and Danu. There is a list of articles on the right side. They are pretty good. But the pages are smothered in more ads. I found a link to one of Danu's webpages that sells the $19.99 Narcissistic Parent Survival Kit. I found the home page. It markets Danu's EFT techniques. http://www.healfromemotionalabuse.com/
I know what EFT is and I think it is little more than light acupressure. Getting past trauma and abuse takes cognitive changes. That means altering your brain's thought patterns from old patterns to new ones by consciously attending to your belief patterns and then changing them. Our belief patterns are hard to spot because we live with them every day. "Hearing" them is a new skill. That is different than soothing your emotions with tapping and a mantra. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy happens when a therapist takes you through weeks of lessons on how to challenge the validity of old memories and thought patterns as they crop up. Each time you have a reaction (or "trigger") you write down the motivating thought and then dissect it down to it's small parts. Then you challenge and question those parts and replace stunting thoughts with productive ones. That is a clinical process designed to help you develop a more realistic view of your trauma. You cannot get that with EFT no matter how dedicated you are to tapping and repeating mantras. This is the therapy used to help soldiers overcome battlefield trauma. It is backed up by years of research and costs insurance companies thousands of dollars.
I noticed Danu's $19.99 kit has a guidebook for "healing" and thriving. Knowing how destructive narcissism can be, I question the scope of this "healing" without a therapist. Maybe it should be called "Help to Thrive" instead of "healing".
I left the DONM site pretty quickly after a comment made to me by one of the admins. I don't remember which one it was since it was a while back but it has bugged me ever since. I had mentioned that I believed I wasn't narcissistic myself, and the comment back was that I should double check that assumption. After all the bending over backwards I have done in my life and the self analysis and the analysis of others I have put in, I think I know my own mind a little better than some random person who doesn't know me at all. I felt it was a very rude and hurtful thing to say, especially by an admin. More than just being called a narcissist, I felt like my intelligence had been insulted, since what DONM hasn't done a ton of reading into psychological behavior and the potential consequences of her own upbringing? I'm aware of myself enough to know what I do. Anyway, I'm glad to see someone else wasn't enamored with the site, despite the good intention. Take care.
ReplyDeleteHi Ladies, I used to be Buffy on the donm website. In case you all don't know, that forum has been down for at least a year already. It was down for repairs and would come back and go back down again, and then finally never came back up. No explanations given. Finally, after a year now Danu has put some kind of apology on the main page, claiming illness. How horrible to sign on to a page where you've made friends and can no longer contact them. I did go onto the Amazon page where she is selling her book, and warn people about her. I got some defenders of her's, probably her or Light, coming to her rescue, but I put the word out anyway. It's all about money for her and I told people that and hopefully no one buys her book. Even though the forum is down and she supposedly is done with the forum and the site, she is still selling her goods and has even put a tip jar there now, LOL. Yes, a tip jar, what a joke!
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ReplyDeleteI've started a new forum donmforum.proboards.com
ReplyDeleteIt's free. It's just a place for old members to talk if they want
Howdy!
ReplyDeleteI don't know if anyone remembers me, I was EmilyMendoza on the DONM forums back in '09 and '10. I was also banned suddenly and unexpectedly, with no real explanation given, and no replies to any desperate inquiries I made. I got the same banned messages as many of you.
My sin, if you can even call it that, was responding to another woman on the forum, one who had posted a long, semi-suicidal posting. If memory serves, she was a relatively new member, clearly in a lot of turmoil. Anyway, I responded with a long, encouraging post. I talked about how things could get better and all that jazz, and talked about a time I had felt the same way but was able to get through it. I assume this was my sin, because that was my last night on the boards. The next day I was banned.
I remember being emotionally devastated. I had been very active before I was banned because that forum was my only real link to the outside world. At the time, I was living with my NM. It was a terrible, terrible year for me, and I was trying to figure a way out with no friends or family or really any kind of net at all. I didn't have a driver's licence or a car, or an ID, or a bank account. All the money I made funneled directly into my NM's bank account. Everyday, it was just me and her. Additionally, I was terrified that she'd come across my story on the forums somehow and make the connection that I'd "shared the dirty laundry" and I would be in for the worst night of my life.
I assumed that I was bad when I was banned. Until finding this posting tonight, I'd always seen it as further proof that really, I was always going to be "bad" despite my attempts to be otherwise. It validated every negative comment my mother had ever said, and I've lived with a piece of guilt and regret in my heart for years now, on account of my banning. It fed into the "no one would love you once they got to know you" myth my mother used to perpetuate.
Ultimately, my banning was a positive thing for me. All that effort and thought I had poured into the forums I redirected towards making friends. I tried to reconnect with acquaintances from my past. One awesome person reciprocated. I discovered that my all-too-common aloofness with her a few years before (due to needing to get home to avoid the wrath of N, instead of accepting any invitations to anything) had made her think I didn't like her, not at all the case. Within the year, I got out with her help.
It's been a really hard last couple of years. I had to figure out all the stuff people are supposed to figure out about being an adult much later than the average person does. I had never even been kissed! I mean, I didn't even have a state ID! Still, I'm all but NC with with my NM now. It's the best feeling in the world. My whole life is better, maybe because now, as opposed to then, I actually have a life of my own for better or for worse.
It is such a relief, even if it is sad, to find out that other people shared my experience with this banning--that it wasn't that I was terrible after all. It's too bad that the DONM forum is run by corruption, and that so many of us were hurt by it. I truly believe I would not have had the strength to get out without so many of the wonderful, strong women there who told me I was worth something while I was there. It's really too bad.
Thanks for letting me chip in my 2 cents. Finding this page has really removed a weight from my shoulders
Emily Mendoza
Hi Emily, I just wanted to say hi and to let you know that I do remember you, very well, from the forum. We talked a few times and then, poof, you were gone. I'm glad you've survived and are ok now, in spite of Danu and that deceptive site! xoxo Judy (Buffy)
Deleteinteresting that trying to prevent a suicide got you in trouble. Did you mention Jesus Christ at all? that might have done it. Also that you were trying to interfere in someone's free will to die? especially if these pagan creeps were making her some kind of indirect human sacrifice by encouraging her in such a direction or by ignoring her plea for help
DeleteBuffy! I absolutely remember you! I'm glad we got out, lol! There really were so many strong women on that forum, and I always wondered what happened to everyone. I remember once, when I chose to confront my NM over my desire to move out, I sharpie'd all these names of DONMs under my clothes so that I could have a physical reminder that I was not alone. You were one of those names. So thank you!
ReplyDeleteYou're very welcome, Emily! I'm glad I was able to help in some small way :)
DeleteBuffy
those names they use are explicitly pagan (morrigan was a vicious monstrous "goddess" in Celtic lore) and new age (light would be the false light of lucifer) and you can expect nothing but evil from these people.
ReplyDeletePerhaps a perusal of typical witch and pagan names might help, there is probably something online about this.
If someone is given such as name by parents then assume multigenerational something wrong.
I forgot to add Danu is another pagan relevant name.
DeleteHi, I came across your blog while researching popular support groups which are in fact toxic and harm many of their members, in the manner you describe in this entry. Can I have your permission to copy the very telling quote from the moderator's post, about the member she found to be odd? I would like to add it as an example in an entry about these types of behind-the-scenes talks (should I say vivisections), linking to the source of course. It's good to have a real life example of how absurd such people can be. The forum I referred to mostly on my blog is called PsychopathFree and members are routinely discussed there on a ''gut feeling'', as potential threats. This seems to be common.
ReplyDeleteMy husband divorced me and went after his ex and left me heart broken for 2 years. I have been playing the lottery for some years before I got married and I have never won any big amount. I continued to play the lottery but I couldn't win more than $500 dollars until I was introduced to Dr Amber that is a strong Haiti spell caster. I had a chat with him via +18084815132 telling him what a mess my life has become. He encouraged and promised to get my man back for me and to help me win the lottery. There were specific instructions that was passed to me by him which I adhered to as he prepared the spell for me that brought back my husband within 36 hours and he gave me some sure numbers to play the lottery game. I used the numbers to play the lottery and I was declared the winner of Ten Million Dollars and all this happened within a week after I knew Dr Amber. It doesn't matter what you are going through in life Dr Amber is here to help. You can visit his website: amberlottotemple.com or E-mail: { amberlottotemple@yahoo.com }.
ReplyDelete